How 1 person can lift 200# food bear bags 20' up

[Kevin Sweere]

This probably isn’t a Philmont-applicable post… but its definitely about hanging heavy food bags

At Philmont food for 4 days/person is roughly 8L and 7#… or 96L and 84# for 12 crew members.

At Northern Tier you depart with a total of 140# – 200# pounds food in two Duluth packs.  You simply cannot hoist those bags to bear-proof heights using just ropes and trees. There simply are not enough suitable branches much less Scout muscle if you use what’s issued (two kernmantle ropes + pulley).  But if you take two more climbing pulleys and carabiner, you only need 2 medium trees with small branches and even a lone, 71 yr old Scouter can lift both bags.

The rope with the pulley attached is rigged between two trees, held up by small branches. (Never through the pulley because it’ll get stuck whereas a knot-ball will come apart).  The second rope is tied through the packs and run through the pulleys.

The BWCA has very little black bear problems (unlike people dense Philmont) and hanging food just 3′ high seems to stop mini-bears (mice, chipmunks, etc.).  The bears there are not trained to cut the ropes to win a prize.

I’m not sure if the additional weight is worth it.  This rig fails if either rope is cut.

 

[Ken Thompson]

Too many in one group.

[Kevin Sweere]

To clarify …. 

I’m not sure if the additional weight of pulleys & such is worth it at Philmont.  Also, this rig fails if either rope is cut, unlike the Philmont-way that requires both ropes be cut.

Perhaps…. as poles-n-cables fail, they’ll be replaced one-by-one with food lockers.

[Brad P]

Perhaps…. as poles-n-cables fail, they’ll be replaced one-by-one with food lockers.

Good grief I hope so.  I realize the bear bags teach a skill, but when the camp sites are fixed, bear-proof lockers certainly make a lot more sense.

I believe I read in the guide that pulley systems are not allowed at Philmont.

[Jay L]

Good grief I hope so.  I realize the bear bags teach a skill, but when the camp sites are fixed, bear-proof lockers certainly make a lot more sense.

Yes, lockers are easier and more efficient.  But since when is Philmont about doing what is easy and efficient at the expense of the learning and the experience?

More important than teaching a skill (which is of marginal value outside of a backpacking scenario), bear bags provide a challenge to overcome by working together.  Part of the team building.  Pushing them into the “storming” phase so they can work through it and come out a stronger team and better equipped individuals.

 

 

[David Y]

2019 Guidebook to Adventure, page 23

ITEMS PROHIBITED:
• Deodorant
• Radios/MP3 Players/Video Game Devices
• Hammocks
• Turkey Bags
• Bear Bag Pulley Systems

Philmont’s backcountry camps are not fixed. They open and close camps each season according to use and need.

[Brad Rogers]

I certainly get the prohibitied items (though I never would have thought you would have to prohibit a Bear Bag Pulley System) but why are Turkey Bags prohibited?  They are too small for me, but I know some people that use them as pack liners in smaller packs (like the Burn).

[Jay L]

Turkey bags are prohibited for cooking.  I suppose if you wanted to use one as a pack liner they would not care about that.

[Jon Fong / Flat Cat Gear]

Who cares about lifting the 200 pounds, I would be more worried about lowering it.  Sounds like an accident just waiting to happen.  My 2 cents

[Tim P]

If you use two people it would be a breeze.  Square rigged sailing ships didn’t have so many block and tackle and they were able to hoist large sails with only a few people. You have to have a reasonable anchor point and something for the line to slide over.  The old ships used a wooden pin or circle for the slide and a belaying pin for the anchor.  Thank you Sea Base!

[David Y]

Pulling a ¼” nylon rope over a 3/8” galvanized steel bear cable creates a lot of friction. Soon after a commissary pick-up you may have 3, 4 or 5 days of food for 12 campers. It usually takes two or three Scouts on each of the two ends of the bear rope with two or three Scouts lifting the bear bags.

[Tony Ronco]

A few quick observations:

One Person Lifting:   Given that the Philmont’s bear bag approach is a double haul system,  there will always be at least two persons pulling up a load (one on each line)

Weight Being Lifted:  Based on measuring Philmont surplus food packets, the average weight is in the 2 lb range per person, per day.  Remember, Breakfast, Lunch and Dinner are packaged for servings of two, so the overall weight of the three meal packages are divided by two to get to the per person, per day weight.  (Breakfast & Lunch are typically done as food buddy style, where as the Dinner is done in a big pot per Philmont’s version of the Patrol Method.)

4 days of food per person weighs approximately 8 lbs per person.   The maximum crew size is 12, which in food weight would approximately equal 8 x 12 = 96 lbs of food in total.

Because of the bulk of the food packages, and the volume of the bear bags (grain bags 50 lb size) that Philmont issues, most larger crews have to hang two main bags (not including the Opps Bag).  While that doubles the bear bag hanging effort, it does cut the lift weight in half.

Pulley System:  Back in 2010, Al Geist demonstrated a pulley method to Philmont officials for their approval.   It was not accepted.

Al’s method also saved the wear & tear on the tie off tree.

Here is the link to his pulley method: https://www.csm.ornl.gov/~geist/Philmont/bear-rope.pdf

Here is the BPL discussion about it: https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/32657/

YMMV,

Enjoy your Trek!

[David Y]

The major short coming of that hook and pulley system is it has no redundancy. Like a chain, it is only as reliable as its weakest link. If any single part fails, or is molested by any animal, the food hits the ground.

And it has multiple parts and requires a special made one-of-a-kind gadget.

Murphy’s Law states, “whatever can go wrong, will go wrong”.

Whereas Philmont’s bear rope system has redundancy. Everything has a backed-up, even the oops rope.

But its real beauty is its simplicity, no special made one-of-a-kind gadget, just a rope. KISS

[Author]

Posts