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HMG "The Shell"


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Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 49 total)
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  • #3486822
    Andy Berner
    BPL Member

    @berner9

    Locale: Michigan
    #3486829
    Bob Shuff
    BPL Member

    @slbear

    Locale: SoCal

    Pricey and White – very characteristic HMG.

    #3486840
    JCH
    BPL Member

    @pastyj-2-2

    Asking in case anyone can answer these questions with any authority:

    1. Is this material different from that used in the ZPacks DCF/eVent jackets that have been around for awhile (and that ZPacks appears to have abandoned)?
    2. Does this use a DWR?
    3. Does it wet out like any other “WPB” material?

     

     

    #3486853
    Nathan Watts
    BPL Member

    @7sport

    RE: “2. Does this use a DWR?”

     

    From the q&a section:

    The material does not require use of DWR, however regular washing of your jacket will help to rid the fibers of sweat and oils to maintain optimal waterproofing, breathability, and general performance over time.

    #3486909
    rmeurant
    BPL Member

    @rmeurant

    Locale: Laniakea

    I looked at this with interest, but it appears to suffer from the widespread drawback of being too short in length. Though it is difficult to be sure, as the fitting info doesn’t give the length. Also, I presume there is only the one pocket, on the right, not on the left as well?

    #3486917
    Michael F
    BPL Member

    @gearu

    I dont think this is a great product tbh

    #3486919
    Nathan Watts
    BPL Member

    @7sport

    “I dont think this is a great product tbh”

     

    Why not Michael?  Do you have experience with it?  I’m interested in how durable and how breathable it is. I like the lack of DWR dependency. I use a goretex jacket that breathes well and doesn’t rely on dwr, but it’s fragile.

    #3486924
    Derrick White
    BPL Member

    @miku

    Locale: Labrador

    Nathan

    What jacket is it that you use?

    Thanks

     

    #3486925
    Nathan Watts
    BPL Member

    @7sport

    Hi Derrick,

    i use an Arcteryx Norvan SL for mountain running. That’s the one I was referencing above that doesn’t use DWR. I use a more traditional gore-Tex jacket for backpacking. The Norvan really isn’t made for backpacking.

    #3486937
    Michael F
    BPL Member

    @gearu

    It’s not going to be very breathable by my guess …it might be light and durable but it will not be very breathable since it’s face fabric is cuben fiber

    #3486940
    rmeurant
    BPL Member

    @rmeurant

    Locale: Laniakea

    I see from the Q and A that:

    “The back length from the neck line down to the bottom seam will be 30″ for the large and 31″ for the XL.”

    #3486986
    Hoosier T
    BPL Member

    @jturner140

    Locale: Midwest

    @gearu I have seen your recent threads on clothing so you’ve obviously been doing a lot of research but you’re making an assumption in this case. The MTVR is listed on their site so rather than assuming, look at the facts: 32,000 gm<sup>2</sup>/24hr. This is a competitive number for breathability. My opinion is as such. Mike St. Pierre is obviously on a mission to build a strong brand is is not taking risks by bringing products to market quickly in order to see what sells. The assumption to make is that he was very careful when choosing the material for his first piece of clothing. He would not risk the release of a sub-par product as his entrance into a new market segment. Yes, HMG is known to be expensive with a large marketing budget but let’s face it, of the small product line he currently offers, his products are well built and thoughtful designs with good materials.

    #3486993
    JCH
    BPL Member

    @pastyj-2-2

    Agree with Hoosier T, there is no way that HMG is entering this market with anything other than an extremely well considered, tested and constructed product.  Still…I have to wonder why HMG is using a fabric that ZPacks seems to have abandoned.  Or perhaps the question is why did ZPacks change their fabric?

    I would love to see a head-to-head functional test of the new HMG jacket and the latest ZPacks Vertice.  Specs usually don’t tell a complete story…

    HMG vs ZPacks

    • 5.8 oz vs. 6.2 oz
    • $450 vs. $299
    • 32,000 gm2 vs. 60,000 gm2
    • 10,000 HH vs. 20,000 HH
    • no pit zips vs. pit zips
    #3487022
    Richard Nisley
    BPL Member

    @richard295

    Locale: San Francisco Bay Area

    Providing two breathability numbers, without specifying which tests were used for each number is of little value. A comparison is only valid for the same test because the test results are not correlated.

    These are industry standard breathability tests for the exact same nylon eVent fabric: ASTM F 1868 = 5.9, ASTM E 96 B = 984.8, ASTM F 2298 = 6162.5, ASTM E 96 BW = 7265.6, and JIS L 1099 = 27875.6.

    For an expert to estimate how each jacket will compare under various mixes of inside temperature and humidity and outside temperature and humidity, you need to have a ASTM E96 B test result for each jacket. The majority of the time, this value will not be provided by a garment vendor. In the above example, this test result is 984.8. Most consumers are clueless as to how breathability standards compare. So, retailers generally select whatever test provides the highest number (in the above example they will give you a JIS L 1099 value of 27875.6) but not specify which test result this number came from.

    #3487024
    Hoosier T
    BPL Member

    @jturner140

    Locale: Midwest

    I hoped Richard would chime in. Does anyone on this forum have a relationship with HMG? Perhaps a trail ambassador could talk HMG into sending Richard a sample piece of their fabric. Richard would you be willing to test for the community?

    #3487025
    JCH
    BPL Member

    @pastyj-2-2

    Sigh!  Every time I decide to write off WPB as a pipe dream, somebody releases a new product that makes me question my decision.  I’m so gullible.

    #3487029
    Richard Nisley
    BPL Member

    @richard295

    Locale: San Francisco Bay Area

    Hoosier,

    Yes, I will test a sample (aproximately 1′ square) if sent to me.

    #3487171
    Michael F
    BPL Member

    @gearu

    don’t care much about the fabric if there are no vent zips …companies thinking the fabric can replace true vent zips is just stupid if you ask me. I could get some sub par, cheap jacket with low air permeability , but has ample zippers and it will beat any super breathable but zipperless crap on the market.

    Good fabric AND ventilation is obviously what makes the best jacket, of course, so it’s a faulty comparison to begin with …I’m just saying no zippers equals no 450 dollars from me

    and since we are talking about the fabrics used…it says Dyneema Cuben Fiber and eVent WPB fabric…how exactly are those two fabrics compatible? DCF is a vapor barrier, everything Ive ever read about cuben says such. Therefore it is not a suitable material for designing a technical hardshell correct? What good is eVent technology if you cover it in a vapor barrier face fabric? That literally makes no sense to me. IMHO I think this a a great emergency shell that is small and light and there when you need it, but this is not going to replace my Westcomb Apoc…I mean…just no… lol

    There are a lot cheaper and similar weighing emergency shells out there (though maybe not as rugged for the weight, so I’m not saying this jacket isnt nice) I’m just saying that it isnt a true technical hard shell imo, at least not for winter or alpine use, for the summer it would be pretty sweet, but at that point Id be calling it a rain jacket and not a technical shell

    #3487179
    Nathan Watts
    BPL Member

    @7sport

    Michael,

     

    You’re all over the place, man. First off you’re comparing a 5oz shell to your 17oz, $520 Apoc. Most here probably have little interest in such a heavy shell. For most of us a WP shell is, in fact, an emergency item that spends 99% of its life inside a pack.

    Have you even tried on your Apoc yet, that you speak so highly of?  You were literally seeking suggestions for a shell just days ago.  What are you’re experiences with the fabric wetting out on you?

    Pit zips are great, I’ll give you that. But they do add bulk to these shells, and for me, packed volume is a big factor when choosing a WP shell.

    Keep doing your research.  Eventually you’ll figure out that this fabric doesn’t use Mylar, but eVent instead.  That’s how they make it breathable

    And lastly, above you said this jacket wasnt any good but you just finished saying it would be pretty sweet.  Like I said, you’re all over the place.  Haha.

    Edit: wanted to state that I have no opinion yet on the HMG Shell. I’m skeptical, but if it does prove to be durable and somewhat breathable, it would be something I’d consider.

    #3487200
    Michael F
    BPL Member

    @gearu

    It’s just my opinion and it isn’t baseless. You just disagree so no need to argue, either of us. I have handled the westcomb jacket but dont own it. My only real point of contention that I can express concisely is that I am very skeptical of the very concept of the jacket , IMO it does have strong points, that I why I said its sweet I by no means was meaning to say I didn’t think it is a cool piece of technology.

    #3487728
    Ben Kilbourne
    BPL Member

    @benkilbourne

    Locale: Utah

    I emailed them asking many of the same questions you guys are asking and I got this response: “The construction of the jacket will be a 2 layer system with an open membrane against your skin and will allow for optimal breathability.  The outer layer is going to be a newly developed fabric from Dyneema Composite Fabrics which will hold a very similar structure or our DCF8 fabrics, or what is used in the shelters, but will be smoother, slightly thinner and breathable.  It will hold all of the same characters as not needing to treat it with a DWR coating nor will it ever absorb any elements.  I hope this was able to clear things up, but if you have any other questions, please feel free o get back to me at any time.”

    Sounds pretty appealing to me, but too pricey.

    #3487730
    Luke F
    BPL Member

    @fowler

    won’t an exposed eVent membrane clog up crazy fast with body oils and dirt?

    #3487734
    Ben Kilbourne
    BPL Member

    @benkilbourne

    Locale: Utah

    Luke F, I believe it will… good point.

    #3487740
    Nathan Watts
    BPL Member

    @7sport

    Any suggestions on base layer considerations to try to extend the time you could go between required washing to clean the membrane?

    #3488703
    James I
    BPL Member

    @racerx00

    Can I add two things to this discussion I don’t think has been touched on?

    1. There’s an “X” factor with HMG gear. Think about their packs, I own an HMG SW 3400. Is it the best bang for your buck weight to performance? No. Did I try all of its competitors that appear better on paper for the $? Yeah, but I wound up with the SW 3400 anyways. Minimalism is sometimes very sophisticated so it takes a sophisticated brand to deliver. Plenty of people find products that work for them, cheaper than HMG packs, but that doesn’t mean that the HMG packs aren’t worth it. The specs on paper don’t deliver the real world experience, perhaps the same is true here. More people need to have this in hand before I give 3rd party opinions any credence. HMG has earned that.
    2. But those hip belt pockets… They’ve been there for a decade on their packs with only minor improvement and I’ve never heard anyone say anything positive about them. Standby and DO wait for reviews is my opinion here as well- it could be a great product with a minor nuisance you hate. Their products are some of the best, but not perfect.

    Bottom line? HMG is great, give them the benefit of the doubt and don’t pre-judge but no one will blame anyone for shakedown time in the market before purchasing. Don’t sell the “x-factor” short. Ya, you can be influenced by labels and shiny things when you listen to your gut, but it’s not always wrong and it’s not with HMG!

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