HMG Shell Jacket

I recalled  very low air permeability and at least one report of leaking. Any long term updates from the people who purchased in 2017-2019?

It’s quite interesting to see the difference in a company that is marketing driven like HMG, vs designer/engineer driven like most others (cottage-ish companies). It’s pretty clear at times that their products might be made to appear cool more than function their best (looking at you, non-existent load lifters).

They must be having most luck on Instagram, because their actions as a company seem to be very off-putting to the rest of us non-popular, unfollowed backpackers. :)

I kind of get a sour taste for corporate hubris. A sewn-through super-expensive down quilt is fine example of that.

Outsourcing production from the USA, and keeping prices maxed out, is really telling of a company that was once seen as a cottage company with real people working it. It all appeared to go that way once their packs showed up at REI shelves.

I see Dan Durston as the opposite of HMG, as he is an engineer-driven endeavor, and clearly wants to make the best performing gear, with feedback from users. I don’t see that loop or interaction at all with HMG. If Dan ever sells a $900 sewn through quilt at REI, I will properly roast him for it. But until then… :)

My friend Patrick wore one for one season. If I think of it I can ask him his thoughts. He tends not to notice if he gets wet so I would not put stock in his feedback on waterproofness. His jacket may have been too small for him because I remember the fit and tailoring being kind of ridiculous with no room for layering. It was like skinny jeans for your arms. He liked that he could cram it in his pocket. He is hard on gear.

It got dirty easily too.

HMG built a reputation producing good ultralight DCF packs and well-built bomber tarps and mids. Their packs have become a bit of a status symbol on trails all over the world. A designer label if you will. And now HMG is marketing to the more affluent consumer who along with being well equipped wants to look good too. Image is very important.. The Shell’s description says “it’s striking design will turn heads on any backcountry trail”. That’s vital. You can look like Alpha Chad gliding down the trail donning your shiny NASA looking rain jacket (with the right label).

The majority of the backpacking masses aren’t down much cottage gear. Big Agnes and Osprey are enormous. More people everyday are discovering cottage gear though. Needless to say HMG is not a cottage company because they wholesale to retailers.

But hey, a lot of six figure people will pay $500 for a sewn through 40* quilt or a $549 rain jacket, and they’ll often do it just because it is expensive. Again it’s the image.

Where did you get the idea it’s ok to insult people based on their income level?

People who make six figures are idiots if they buy HMG products? or are they all just idiots who are only concerned with image?

They’re only idiots if they have a hemorrhage over a benign post about keeping up appearances. Heck at one time I made near six figures and was kind of like the consumers I describe. But paying $549 for a rain jacket is kind idiotic if you ask me. Just an opinion mind you. Not worthy of getting the blood pressure up.

And many backpackers who aren’t high earners will spend money they shouldn’t in order to look as if they’re part of the UMC.

That text above that green Submit Button does remind you to be kind and be inclusive. These are core values here at BPL and we do moderate based on those. There is no need to throw shade at anyone or any group: we are talking about a piece of clothing here.

Let’s steer this back to the jacket. It sure is expensive and I’m not convinced that it looks like a great design even if it was $150. If I wanted a superlight rain shell I’d get a nonbreathable silpoly or dcf shell (maybe from Timmermade?) with some mechanical ventilation and save myself several hundred bucks. That said, if the HMG shell got absolutely amazing reviews I might save my allowance for a while and buy one. I certainly have some other expensive gear that I purchased on my schoolteacher salary…

The Shell’s DWR-less face fabric promises a substantial performance upgrade over other ePTFE membrane shells with a nylon or polyester face fabric that requires DWR to maintain performance in prolonged wet weather.

IF it actually works in practice, the high price might be worth it for some. In theory, the DCF construction with the ePTFE layer inside should be a lot more durable than Gore Shake Dry, which achieves the DWR-less performance effect by putting the membrane on the outside, at the cost of being fairly fragile for that reason.

It was precisely this promise of no wetting out issues plus durability that enticed me to take the plunge when the first iteration of The Shell went on clearance sale five years ago just when I happened to be visiting the US and thus had a golden opportunity to avoid import and consumption taxes shipping to Europe. Yet even on sale (and back then the list price was $100 lower than the current model), it was still a luxury purchase. For. a. freakin. 3 season. shell. jacket. (Yup, I have used nonbreathable lightweight rain shells a lot, but that’s for another thread).

In the field, I was very disappointed by the performance. I noticed what seemed to me like leakage in a heavy rain on a long gentle downhill section where I wasn’t working hard and didn’t perceive any sweat. Could it have been water vapor condensation? Yes, but I don’t think so. I suspect that the DCF is prone to developing micro holes that leak. Here on BPL, a member reported leakage issues with two different examples of The Shell (HMG replaced the first one at no cost). Since I live in Europe, I didn’t try to pursue it with HMG customer service. When the model was discontinued, I just assumed that it was because of performance issues. So I’m really surprised to see this piece now return to their product line.

If it were selling for $150, perhaps $200 cuz of the DCF “surcharge”, I’d consider it, maybe.

I’d be curious to know if other people who bought the first version encountered similar issues with “leakage”?

Edit: found the report of leakage on BPL.

Thank Jon for sharing your experience.  That’s the sort of information I was looking for.

Regarding the “only six figure image consumed people would purchase one”… I am one of those people who don’t care [edit MK] about image but I would spent that sort of money if The Shell actually performed .  I am willing to pay for exceptional performance, especially when I know either the materials or manufacturing is costly.

For example, I love my shakedry shell (actually have several stashed that I picked up on clearance so when the current wears out I have others).  Shakedry was a complete game changer for me when running and cycling and pretty awesome for gentle trail backpacking.  As mentioned elsewhere with shakedry I can do an extended endurance run in <50F rain with basically no moisture accumulation and feeling perfect (temp wise).  In these conditions running without raingear would work ok for my core my but arms would become painfully cold, and I would overheat and be swimming in sweat and then chill with any other rain shell.

The Shell’s original hype made it sound like it could provide the performance of shakedry in something that was up to bushwhacking and I would assume many years of service.  I didn’t purchase the first generation because it didn’t seem like it lived up to it’s hype, hence my ask if people have long-term reviews of the first generation.

I will note, that HMG does seem to be asking for a premium price compared to “real” cottage gear companies and agree they aren’t what I think of a cottage company with their retailing through REI, etc.

I’ve had an old-gen Shell for several years. It’s breathable enough for the dry Rockies in the cold seasons (late fall, winter, and early spring). I wish it had pit zips or side zips and vented pockets…

It’s proven to be more durable than I expected for bushwhacking and mountain scrambling (rocks) but mine has a few pinholes under the pack strap wear areas. A shoulder yoke of something more durable would make this a more compelling jacket.

I think HMG must have discovered a few remnant rolls of WPB-DCF in a janitor’s closet and thought “omg we gotta get rid of this stuff!” and decided to do one last Shell hurrah before the fabric goes SBF.

“Going SBF”…my new favorite term. Thanks Ryan.

The cottage company NW Alpine has been offering their longtime running DCF shell jacket for a mere $599. *smacking lips*

NW Alpine has been out of stock on that jacket for a long time. The fabric has been dead-ended by DCF, they may not have a janitor’s closet…

I never really understood the strategy behind these DCF-WPB jackets. You have this very light breathable fabric that admittedly doesn’t last very long, but may be worth it ($) for some expeditions where you want to count ounces. It is very breathable and comfortable, but why ditch pit zips, hood brim, and volume (so you can layer)? Makes me think these are PR stunts with the goal of winning the weight column in a spreadsheet.

I’ll put my Berghaus Hyper 100 (under $300) over the Shell any day. Features their 3 layer Hydroshell Elite proprietary blend on a super lightweight nylon. Weighs 4.1 oz for size XL. I only carry it on longer SUL fastpacking missions where I don’t expect a lot of heavy sustained rainfalls . Been wet twice and so far seems about as “breathable” as any I suppose. Sure, the DWR will eventually wear off and I’ll have to either treat it or buy another one.

Just because someone of means spends considerably more on an item to project an image doesn’t mean they’re dumb. Fact is that is the demographic which usually has the funds to buy high-end stuff. Humans live in a world of symbols whereby we identify with those who we desire to associate with, clothing being one of the things we use to make such judgements. I still say HMG is trying to be the Gucci of rain jackets. And that doesn’t mean people who can afford The Shell are fools for buying it. Nothing wrong with image and projecting success IF you have the means to do so. Just so happens that high earners are the ones who can play the game. Economic reality. And then there are the millions of people who don’t have the big incomes and end up going broke trying to live beyond their means (attempting to project an image).

It’s all relative Monte. There was this guy who finished the Colorado trail with a kids spiderman backpack from Walmart or Target who is going – Zpacks Sub-Nero? Isn’t that too expensive? :-)

I am not sure people buy stuff like the HMG shell or McHale backpacks are doing it for status. Take for example McHale backpack – these people have tried several backpacks which didn’t work and in the process they probably spent as much as a McHale backpack trying all these backpacks before they buy their “one and done” McHale.

Same with WPB rain jackets. Even under $300 is not that far from $549 when you have cheapo Frogtoggs. Sure they are not durable – but, hey keep buying Frogtoggs and you will not hit $549 or $3o0! I have a $100 Outdry from Columbia which I have been using for the last several seasons.

I am not saying there aren’t people who are like what you describe. But, lets face it – we backpackers are dirty folks from not having taken a bath for a few days and fashion is the last thing others are going to admire about someone on the trail – wearing a HMG shell for fashion will be like putting lipstick on a pig! (stole this from the Vice Presidential debate a few seasons back…).

Anyways I think you were just making a harmless statement.

Each to their own!

If The Shell performed up to the level of its promise (no wet out/permanent DWR, higher durability, higher MVTR), it would easily be more economical over the long term, even at current list price, than the Berghaus Hyper 100 or any similar jacket. Even so, there might still be some who would prefer to buy new Berghaus H100 jackets every so often just to save a few grams, or those who would value designs with mechanical venting features and/or a fit that permits layering rather than either of those two.

Back in 1998-99, before eVent was commercialized, it was being used by Feathered Friends as a shell material for their sleeping bags. Naturally, they also used it to make a shell jacket that was sold only through their store in Seattle. The construction was 2 layer. Something like 8 ounces with pit zips but totally unsealed. I sealed one myself by hand with Seam Grip. Looked terrible. Performed really well. That was before the age of influencers. Image doesn’t necessarily mean expensive. Even the combo of crappy looks and high performance could be turned into a desirable image if spun in the right way by a “successful” influencer. Cost is certainly one part of the equation but hardly the only factor.

Even with my meager salary I’ll pay whatever price for the lightest high-quality SUL gear. Much of that has to do with my intense hatred of weight, which has gotten even worse after 2 knee surgeries.

Backpackers tend to have higher incomes and education levels than the general population at large. There’s even been talk about the “gentrification” of ultralight backpacking. Some will say spending $700 plus on a DCF shelter has to do status, but I for the most part disagree with that assumption.

Dead Bird (Arc’teryx) is a brand which denotes a designer label because of its high prices. The quality is supreme though. I have a Dead Bird vest I bought at a big markdown years ago and I’ve had a number of comments on it just because of the logo. Maybe people fancy me as a doctor or other professional. Well I am a doctor, a doctor of style. And I’ve heard Patagonia referred to as Patagucci, however their prices aren’t necessarily the highest. But $549 for a hard shell that we all know doesn’t perform as advertised? Has to be an attempt to become the Versace of rain jackets IMO.

And not everyone is a multi-day backpacker either. There are far more day hikers and overnighters. To say that some people don’t try to look chic out on the trail, especially around high-income locations like Boulder for example, I think is not being very observant. I have to admit that when I come across people on the trail I look for their pack logo to see what brand it is. Call me a shallow gear snob, I plead guilty.

Again, if someone with money spends a lot on designer label outdoor apparel it doesn’t mean they are stupid in any way (as long as they can truly afford it). That was never implied. Just because someone perceives it that way doesn’t make it true.

I would never buy a piece of gear that used eVent as the membrane again. As a waterproof/breathable system it fails early and decisively. Especially in footwear. My God, useless.

Ten years ago I would have said eVENT was the best WPB material out there. I had an eVENT rain shell made westcomb that I used for 9 years without it ever leaking and was more breathable than any other WPB material I had used (until Shakedry came along).  I retired the jacket when I was no longer able to restore the DWR. Alas, when GE purchased the company making eVENT all advancement seemed to stop. I would be surprised if eVENT ever matched Gore products since Gore continues to advance.

No reason to pay full price for HMG gear. There are plenty of discount codes around. Not saying that it’s not still expensive even at 10-15% off but discounts are available.

Hey Monte, more power to you for hangin’ in there and continuing your pursuit of self-powered outdoor travel even after 2 knee surgeries!

Wow. That was quick. That certainly supports Ryan’s theory about finding half a roll.

I’ve got about 10yds of that stuff in Black in a closet…can’t think of anything to do with it.  $100 takes all. Think it was over $35 p/y new. Huh, yeah, well…