HMG Owners! White or Black?

White seems durable enough for me so far.

White will look like a dirty shopping bag in no time but that’s not a personal concern.

White *might* be a little easier to find loose gear in.  All my gear is dark.

I like the velcro at the top.  Compared to ULA packs I’ve owned with similar style closures, I like how the velcro brings everything together and keeps your rolltop in place.

Don’t know about the daisy chains…the stock hip pockets are adequate for me.

I have the 3400 Southwest.  Overall, it’s quickly become my favorite pack so far, replacing my GoLite Jam2 with much more load hauling comfort.  Fits me better than my ULA Catalyst did (the ULA always felt bulky and unbalanced; the HMG hugs the body better and is a smaller, more streamlined pack.  I like simple rucksack designs and this is it- but with a light frame.

Funny you start this thread. I’ve been debating the same the for the same pack. I wasn’t aware you could order a pack without the hipbelt pockets?

I have a white 2400 SW which I’ve used extensively for on and off trail hiking in Alaska and Arizona.  I’ve had no problems with the white material not holding up to fighting through alders and willows or cactus and the various and sundry sticky and thorny plants the desert has to offer.  I like the waist belt pockets for small items like extra camera batteries, etc – things I don’t need to necessarily access while I’m wearing it.  A daisy chain with attached pocket seems like more weight and trouble than it’s worth.  I do much prefer the “solid” material external pockets over the net pockets of the Windrider.  And I echo the above comment about the velcro top.

My 2400 is my go-to day and overnight pack – I also have a 3400 SW and a 4400 SW for longer trips/bigger loads.  I love the way they fit, they are easy to pack, the pockets are “yuge” and the optional straps for the middle pocket as well as the top straps allow for lashing lots of stuff outside the pack, if need be.

Thomas, you have a few custom options with HMG if you contact them directly via email or phone. Some include leaving out the hydration port(s), getting a smaller or larger hipbelt, making that hipbelt either the climbing (daisy chain) or backpacking (pockets) hipbelt, you can get a sewn in zippered pocket above the hydration bladder pocket, and you can probably add webbing in specific places if you wanted to. These are just things that I know of. You can always call or email HMG directly and ask! Which way are you leaning on the color? I hope to use mine for backpacking but also a crag bag for climbing which will take trad gear and be thrown against rock so am thinking the black for that reason but also because it will look better after repeated use and has very little weight penalty. The only downside is price and that maybe it would absorb a lot of sunlight and get hotter against the back and maybe would be hard to find items that linger in its depths as the previous poster mentioned.

Keith- thanks for the info! I will reach out and inquire about those mods. It seems that despite the glowing reviews of the pack, the biggest weakness is the smaller pockets. I’d rather put my ZPacks hip pockets on the belt to use. I think the black looks really sharp but I will most likely go with the white. I saw two employees of HMG this summer on the AT with white packs and the worn look gave it some rustic appeal, imo. Also- probably gonna go with the 3400. I’m planning on doing the CT, JMT, and Long Trail this summer/fall and feel that’ll be the best for the wide range of geography.  Then PCT next year.

Thomas, I agree with you completely. I have a ULA Ohm 2.0 that has a lot of features I like (big hipbelt pockets that fit a Galaxy S6, load lifters, duel hipbelt webbing that pull in, not out) that prevent me from falling completely in love with the HMG Southwest. I might just wait a bit and see if HMG makes some upgrades to their design in the near future and then pull the trigger. But I am still so very curious to try the pack since so many people rave about it. My curiosity may get the best of me sooner than later… but for now I will hang with the Ohm and save a few bucks. Good luck with your trips! That sounds really fun.

I’m a recent convert to an HMG 2400 Windrider. I’ve had it on a couple hikes one of which was a 3 day solo sufferfest. No trail for half the hike and major bushwhacking for miles. The 1.5 days I did of bushwhacking/off trail was tougher than my entire JMT thru hike. My point it that the pack came out unscathed except for some “charcoal” marks from fighting through charred vegetation. Even the mesh of the outside pockets came away perfect. I had 2 snag holes on the first day I had hiked with my arc haul on the outside mesh pocket!

Like many report and HMG claim, their stuff seems to be bomber. I would only choose the black for aesthetic reasons. Btw, it does look cool. I got white because it’s easy to see inside. The Velcro closure is good  Velcro is generally waterproof when mated (closed).

Another mod they will do is put SW water bottle/side pockets and keep the front pocket mesh. Or vice versa I assume.

Minor faults of the pack imho:

-hip belt pockets are small but they are easy to open with one hand.

-Front, outside pocket is too short. To be fair, this is a complaint I have with some other packs too. I wish it went up higher.

-Velcro opening does not have webbing tabs for easier opening.

These are not deal breakers to me.

White is my strong preference, though it does stain a bit. Easier to see things inside, and doesn’t overheat in hot sun. Also, the regular cuben doesn’t like rubbing friction – I managed a hole in my Porter on a bumpy bus ride.

The high end Dyneema really attracts stains badly – grass, spilled coffee, etc. Other than that, it is a superb fabric. I abuse my Dyneema Summit, (today again in fact, with tele skiis stuffed between the pack and the pocket), and it just smiles courteously, performs excellently, and respectfully asks, will there be any more today, sir?

black absorbs heat from sun, so will dry out better if wet

this isn’t much of an issue for a pack though, other gear more so, like tent, sleeping bag,…

Don Burton said: I’m a recent convert to an HMG 2400 Windrider. I’ve had it on a couple hikes one of which was a 3 day solo sufferfest. No trail for half the hike and major bushwhacking for miles. The 1.5 days I did of bushwhacking/off trail was tougher than my entire JMT thru hike. My point it that the pack came out unscathed except for some “charcoal” marks from fighting through charred vegetation. Even the mesh of the outside pockets came away perfect. I had 2 snag holes on the first day I had hiked with my arc haul on the outside mesh pocket!”

Don,

How did the load carrying ability of the HMG compare to the Zpacks Arc Haul?  If you did the JMT again, would you take your Zpacks Arc Haul or your HMG Windrider (or get the HMG 3400)?

The thing is, Jerry, that neither a white HMG pack nor a black one will take on water, except for at a couple of seams that they aren’t able to tape. I took my 3400 Southwest to a nearby open space for a stroll during a driving rain storm to test its waterproofness (that’s a word, right?). The only parts of the pack that soaked up water were the side and front pockets, which were drenched (as was everything that was in them). Also, the tops of the shoulder straps and the hip belt pockets. Of course these components are black, and they dried out fairly quickly like you suggested. This little test showed me that anything stored in those pockets better be in waterproof bags for protection. I use MYOG roll-top cuben stuff sacks for nearly everything that goes into these pockets. I’m not much worried about anything carried in the main pack compartment, although I use a pack liner. Anything that doesn’t fit inside it is placed in one of the cuben roll-top bags, or at least a Ziploc freezer bag. I love the fact that the HMG packs don’t take on much extra weight during a heavy rain storm.

Dave, if I did the JMT again I’d definitely take my HMG over an Arc Haul. I think the HMG carries really well but not mind blowingly well. Meaning, I think it’s great but not the way people say McHales carry. The Arc Haul just wasn’t for me. Too many adjustments that I felt like I just couldn’t dial in even after trying multiple combinations. I found that I like throwing on a pack and just adjusting the belt and shoulder straps. This assumes the pack is a good fit.

The white translucent material worked well at night when I would put a tiny key chain LED flashlight in the bag and it would create a huge glowing lamp for my tent. My vote is for white as it is lighter material and tough. I’ve only used the 2400 Windrider once so far on a five day hike on the Trans-Catalina Trail but the stains seem to be limited to the bottom.

Don- this is what I am experiencing with my Arc Haul. There’s just too many moving parts. I want a bag I can put on and go.

A question for anyone in here regarding size: assuming one has a 10-12lb base weight, how much food can one realistically hold in the 2400 vs the 3400? Also, how does a bear can fit in it?

I can’t comment on the 2400, but in the 3400 a BV450 will fit horizontal or vertical, a BV500 only vertical.

Can’t answer how much food it will hold….depends on your food and the volume, not weight, of your other gear.

Tom,

So far I really like my HMG 2400 Windrider (2 trips). A BV450 fits easily vertically. I haven’t tried horizontally though but sounds like it would fit. I haven’t tried a BV500 though. I haven’t used it in 2 years but I saw people on the JMT with the bv500 strapped outside the pack on the top with that “Y” strap. Looked secure. The straps could be run along the grooves of the bv500. Mind you, the can is empty when strapped like this and their food is inside their pack. Just put the food back in the can at night. I can get 5 days of food in a carefully packed bv450. My bw is also 10-12lbs for multi-day trips and it’s plenty big to me. The pack body is 2400 ci which if I remember correctly is about 50L. They don’t include the exterior or hip pockets in this volume so coming from a 52L Arc it looks cavernous because they include those pockets. YMMV

I bought my HMG on campmor with a 20% off coupon. HMG also had a 15 or 20% off sale for the holidays but that’s a long time to wait. Campmor has 20% off coupon codes frequently. I have a 19″-ish torso and ordered a medium which is at the long end of the range. It was too small so I exchanged it for a large. I just paid shipping for 1 way. Unused and with tags on still. I should have heeded the HMG site’s advice which said to size up if you’re on the cusp.

Don- excellent information. Thank you!

The 3400 is perfect for PCT or other long hikes, with big resupply loads and lots of water carry.  I thruhiked with it then washed most of the grime out back home.  I don’t care the least about the slight brown tinge.  The black is slick looking but I wouldn’t swap if I could.  Probably results in increased chocolatemelt!

This thread is feeding my worst gear-aholic tendancies.  I have (2) ULA backpacks and was looking at some daypacks at a local shop when the owner pointed me to an HMG Windrider hanging there.  We were having a completely philosophical talk about mesh vs fabric pockets when I started to really admire the pack.  He has a lot of high-end cottage packs to choose from and says he likes this one for it’s comfortable carry.  After coming home and rechecking the specs and reviews, I realized HMG was having a sale.  Then this thread pops up, and I’m in obsession mode.

After reading many posts, I still have to ask.  Did anyone get the mesh Windrider and wish they got the solid Southwest instead?  I’ve only read folks that were happy with which ever one they got.

I’m a convert to HMG from Z-packs now.  Z-packs packs are now just too complicated.  HMG are simple and significantly more robust.   I have not missed the air gap against my back at all, and I’m happier being able to throw the pack on without tweaking and adjustments.

The biggest drawback for me is that nobody except Z-packs seems to understand how to make side water bottle pockets that are suitable for those like me who like to reach back to grab bottles while wearing the pack.   The pockets need to be as low as possible, and cut generously enough in expansion that the water bottle can sit in there low and secure;  the rim must be just so – not elasticated so that you can’t get access, but no so loose that the bottle falls out.

The belt pockets on the HMG packs are a little odd at first, but I’ve come to like them.   They are small and awkward to open (I find I have to undo the belt), but they good for scrambling, much less likely to get snagged.    In any event, it’s a standard request for HMG to omit their sewn-on pockets, so you can just affix other pockets if you prefer.

White over black for me – I hike a lot in the desert, and I don’t want my chocolate to melt.  There’s a big difference in the temperature inside your bag between black and white packs.    It’s also easier to see stuff inside a white pack.     The white material is plenty robust, and it’s a standard feature that the base of HMG packs has a double layer of material – that’s the spot that gets the worst abrasion.

For your standard everyday hiking the white fabric is perfectly fine. Plan on seeing any abrasive environments? Granite will chew threw that 50d polyester very easily. As in, setting your pack down on it will create pinholes. If so, the black fabric will withstand it much better although not as well as the old 210d Dyneema X.

Does ULA still make cuben packs ? If so, I would consider an Ohm 2.0 or Circuit with Ohm features. IMO an Ohm’s better in almost every way. The only real draw to an HMG pack is the fabric.

My white cuben HMG southwest has 3000 miles on it and one hole: in the dynema xpack outside pocket.  Poor user error yanking against a rock one time.  The durability stuff has to stop.  It begins waterproof and stays that way for thousands of miles, and eventually develops pinholes in high wear areas, like in the rolltop.  This is after more use than most packs get to see.  Any fabric is torn after poor use. Any fabric loses something after 6 months continued use.  I have two main packs hmg 3400 for heavy and zpacks zero for light.  Both cuben hybrid and serving me well. Everything else is going to collect dust for a long time (til I get itchy fingers when something else comes along)

Just bought a ULA CDT for a gift, and while it is a great pack, it is a different pack.  The HMG is made to carry out stuffed with heavy food and water.  It isn’t the dreamiest cushiest, but it takes weight in stride for >2lb empty.  Different tools for different jobs.  If you have long food and water carries with 30lb total loads you want something constructed to take it.

I would like the old MLD newt shoulder straps and waistbelt padding to match -on every pack- but the overall hmg pack is a solid foundation.

The biggest drawback for me is that nobody except Z-packs seems to understand how to make side water bottle pockets that are suitable for those like me who like to reach back to grab bottles while wearing the pack.   The pockets need to be as low as possible, and cut generously enough in expansion that the water bottle can sit in there low and secure;  the rim must be just so – not elasticated so that you can’t get access, but no so loose that the bottle falls out.

I can agree with Ralph here.  having water bottle pockets that I can reach on the move is a must for me, and fewer and fewer packs seem to offer that.  I have an older ULA that I can reach, and I think they still use they same design, and my Seek Outside Unaweep works well too.

BTW my vote is white.

As the owner of a black pack I would like to point out that I have not experienced any heat related issues with it. Not any hotter inside or out compared to any other pack I used. Even the same pack when green, Ohm v1.0. I dyed it black.