Help me do my first fastpack

[California Packrafting]

Greg,

Well thanks for saying that. I have the pack and am considering just paying the $7 to return it to backcountry.com. I will leave the tags on and load it up this weekend when I have some time and see how it feels to jog around the block.

It turns out I can get a discount on the Salomon, get it for 160. It’s a lot more compelling at that price. Folks who have tried both report a big difference. Also I am right smack between the two sizes for the UD packs and I can tell it’s not a perfect fit. the Salomon comes in like 4 sizes…

[California Packrafting]

Cole,

Yeah, I have read that post a couple times. Really helpful. I just ran my first 1/2 marathon, so 40 mile days are a bit much. Also that doesn’t sound fun anyway. But back to back 15 – 20 mile days with some running and some walking sounds kinda fun. Also, just running in 8 miles and camping and running out sounds good too. I will try and keep this thread alive with data on the packs as well as gear choices and questions.

[California Packrafting]

Bri,

Let us know how it goes and how the gear works out. Thanks for posting your gear list.

My lightest bag is a Marmot Quasar 30. Seems like I can save about 8 oz on a 40degree quilt. Expensive piece of gear from Kabatic or Enlighened equipment. I might get this for 50 bucks and save 7 oz… https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/overall-impressed-with-aegismax-sleeping-bag-from-china/

I have a 3oz Gold Gear SUL cook set, that’s all good

I might get a SUL hammock for stealth camping around the Bay Area. If I am in front country (Henry Coe, Pt. Reyes, Foothills, Redwoods) for 1-2 nights I can check weather and don’t need to worry too much about rain. I have a MYOG 1/2 pyramid polycryo tarp (8 oz with groundsheet and stakes) or I could get a bivy for same weight…

My lightest sleeping pad is a Sea 2 Summit ultralight insulated 15 oz (I LOVE this pad. Inflates and deflates in seconds. I had 2 neo airs and both had a leak after first night…and was very careful. Strange I know) and that seems too much for this kind of trip. If I go hammock I can skip it, at least if it’s not at elevation (cold). What do people recommend for a pad for a trip like this? Seems like neo air xs is the smallest and lightest. I ordered one of these https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Outdoor-Sleeping-Pad-Ultralight-Camping-Inflatable-Mylar-Air-Mattress-Disaster-Emergency-Inflatable-Air-Bed-Mat-Sleeping/32689867556.html?spm=2114.13010608.0.0.eCO3x8 I saw instructions on here somewhere to shorten this to torso length and get weight down to 8oz… Obvi the durability is a concern, but I am not made of money and that looks more comfy than a 1/8″ piece of foam! Worth a try. If it pops it’s only one night.

Figuring out clothes and layers for going into high country would be more challenging.

[Mike M]

I’ve done several overnighters w/ the Montane 20 (and one 3 day/2 night)- the wide elastic “belt” really locks it in- you can run flat out with this pack.  What I’ve found is that I seldom run flat out in the mountains- too much country to cover in a day and the country is rough enough it’s not really conducive to running flat out.  I’ve since moved to a UD 30 and find the added volume a really nice addition.  It doesn’t carry as nicely as the Montane at full gait, but it still carries pretty decently running- decent enough that I sold the Montane.

It takes a while to get your kit dialed in (I’m still dialing mine in) and some $, but the opportunity to get into (and out) of gorgeous country on a weekend that would normally take 3-4 days is worth the price of entry :)

 

 

[Bri W]

@asolthane idk how big your pad is, but if it folds nicely you can remove the Salomon’s back pad and slide your own in there. I was able to do this easily with my small XTherm, but idk if anything bigger would fit. I haven’t tested it running yet though.

I got nervous about the SOL bivy so I just ordered from Borah Gear a short and narrow .51 cuben with the new RSBTR 1.4 oz. WPB material for the shell, and a draw cord closure hood. We’re thinking it might land under 6 oz., which would be awesome. If it rains, I can just put my rain jacket over my head. I’m excited to test this out.

My running buddy will be using the new UD Fastpack 35 with the hip belt on the Rougue River Trail so she’s going to report how it handles. I tried it on without weight and it seems to cinch down nicely…lots of space and pockets too, which could get dangerous and tempting for non-UL folks  :)

My other running buddy is bringing a hammock on this trip for his sleeping system. I wish I could find a light enough hammock and straps to bring on this trip just for lounging around at camp. The last thing I’m going to want to do is sit or stand on hard ground. There’s something wonderful about hammocking after a super long run.  Maybe it’s the complete relief from the joints.

When is your next trip?

[California Packrafting]

runningarehouse.com has the S-Lab peak 20 on sale for 150, and there is a discount code Believe10 for 10% 0ff.

I ended up ordering both bags from places with free return shipping to evaluate.

I loaded up the UD 20 yesterday and went for a quick jog, but I didn’t have luggage scale because I left it with a friend. I’m guessing around 12 lbs, and it seemed to carry fine, I didn’t have issues with movement.

The Salomon should arrive soon…

[Bri W]

I just took the S-Lab on a 13.6-mile run with about 6 lbs. of weight including water and food. I had zero bounce, no chafing (even with a thin tank top during most of the run), my upper body never got sore, and I’d pretty much forgotten it was there. This week I’ll be doing the same distance with more weight!

[Bri W]

Need advice:

I folded my GG thinlight pad and shoved in where the Salomon pad used to be. The Salomom pad has these little hooks that clip to the pack to keep it stationary. Since the thinlight pad can’t hook on to anything, it kept sliding out the side or the top. Any advice on how to keep it in its place? I may try out the Nightlight pad there instead…maybe bc of its thickness it’ll stay put. But I don’t think it’ll fold correctly for this space. I’ll try it out on my next day off

 

Also, I ran 15 miles today with my 10° quilt, 4 oz bivy, and a bunch of smaller stuff, plus lots of food and water. I was definitely the heaviest run, maybe close to 10 lbs. Still no bounce and 7 miles from the end (mostly downhill) I just wore a sports bra and had no chaffing. This pack fits like a dream! I just wish it came in pink or purple  :)

 

 

 

 

 

[Mike M]

nightlight pad is a lot stiffer so that might work; if not is there a way to attach similar clips to your pad?  velcro tabs as an attachment?

 

I damn near bought the pack, but with no pink or purple as an option- I just had to pass :)

[Bri W]

@mtwarden it’s a real bummer their colors are so plain. They have a teal and dark purple available in other packs, but not this one. Darn. :)

I guess I could attach clips, but that’ll just add more weight. Haha but maybe the stiffer pad will be better. If not, the Velcro idea might work. The material might stick well to velcro. Thanks!

[Mike M]

:)

what was the weight of the Salomon pad?  I shaved a couple of ounces by replacing the pad in my UD 30

[Ito Jakuchu]

Asolthane – that is a nice price. If the UD works for you that is for sure great too though.

Bri W: Glad you seem to put it to such good use. Up to now I have run mostly with 5~6Kg (11~13lb) in the S-Lab Peak 20.
For me at least, it feels both lighter than my UD, and with much less bounce. The UD is more robust, but the Salomon fits me a lot better.
I’m nursing a broken toe and can’t wait to take it out again.

Mike: My pad weighs 36g (1.27oz) sweat and dirt included. I have a Large in this vest, so perhaps Bri’s might be lighter.

[Mike M]

^ not nearly the savings as replacing the UD pad then

[Bri W]

The Salomom back pad is in storage so I haven’t weighed it. I just immediately removed it bc I knew it would be useless.

So today I packed my bag with almost everything I’ll be carrying on this trip. I absolutely could not fit the GG Nightlight pad in the pad slot, or even in the pack. It was just too thick. So I cut one of the outside thirds off (the larger one), and now the 2/3 piece fits in the slot and the 1/3 piece fits inside the pack. As you can see from the pics, it’s long, but I’m going to go test this out on an LSD run today and see if that will be a problem. The foam will probably have divits in it from the pack, but at least it fits! My 3/4-length GG Thinlight pad is then rolled up and placed on the bottom; the pack tapers toward the bottom and this rolled up pad fits perfectly there! I’ve been lying on both of these together, and it’s actually not as uncomfortable as I was expecting. It’s definitely better than the Ridgerest and the ZLite IMO. I think it’ll be just fine for this trip. Exhaustion + muscle relaxants will probably mean I won’t even notice if the pads are uncomfortable. :) Plus, cutting the third piece off means I can position it perpendicular to the other two pieces, giving more length and thus cushion for both my hip and knees (I toss and turn, often on my side).

Anyway, I haven’t divied up my food into their respective baggies yet, so that will free up space. I shoved my quilt/clothes, FAK, Cuben bivy, and food into the bag and then tightened the green compression strap and loosened up the load lifter straps. Everything fits with room to spare and without stress on the zipper! And it still feels comfortable. I’ll report back on the bounce factor after my run.

For now, I’m quite impressed with this pack. Thanks for starting this thread!

[Peter Bakwin]

I think there’s a lot of confusion about the term “fastpacking”. To me it means that your objective is to use whatever means necessary to cover your route in the shortest amount of time. Hence, overall, speed is a high priority. It doesn’t mean “backpacking with some running”. On a multiday trip if I want to make the maximum miles I’m typically not going to run much. I can walk for 16+ hours per day for many days in a row, but throw in running (with a pack) and it gets hard to sustain. The fastest backpackers are now doing 40+mpd for many days without running a step.

 

That said, I get that you like to run. Me too, but I dislike running with a pack or any load over about 12-15lbs. If you want to do 1-2 nights with running, I think you can easily keep your total weight below that, provided you have good access to water. Pick a good weather window so you can get by on minimal/no shelter, do no-cook food, etc.  I’ve done 2 night trips in the desert (no water!) with the UD FP20 no problem. The 30 or the new 35 is huge for that.

[California Packrafting]

@pbakwin Yes, I see there is a difference between a trip in which you want to do big miles, and a trip where you want to go fast. I am interested in a trip where I go fast, and do 8-12 miles in. Working up to more sounds cool, this is where I am at though.

I have only ever backpacked in the High Sierra where there is water everwhere, but have been looking at locations where this kind of running overnight would be fun…but I would need to carry water. Having never done this, it makes me a little nervous. How much water do you typically carry per day? Also, running in the desert would involve significant fluid loss due to sweat!

I haven’t really been able to identify a good first location for this. I have been considering the Snow Mountain wilderness in Mendocino over Memorial Day weekend. Later in the season there are plenty of options in Desolation or Emmigrant. Since I can get entire cook set below 3oz I am not that worried about no cook, more the weight of some of my other gear.

[Cole B]

I think there’s a lot of confusion about the term “fastpacking”. To me it means that your objective is to use whatever means necessary to cover your route in the shortest amount of time. Hence, overall, speed is a high priority. It doesn’t mean “backpacking with some running”. On a multiday trip if I want to make the maximum miles I’m typically not going to run much. I can walk for 16+ hours per day for many days in a row, but throw in running (with a pack) and it gets hard to sustain. The fastest backpackers are now doing 40+mpd for many days without running a step.

In the end it’s just labels, but to me what you are describing is still backpacking. The term “backpacking”  encompasses a wide continuum of speed and distance, but I don’t see the need to modify the name to “fastpacking” until you change the basic activity to specifically include running as the primary focus.  The run might be a 2 miles or 40 miles, but the point is, you run as much of it as you can because the enjoyment is the running itself (plus nature), and then you camp where you stop.

[Greg Mihalik]

^^^

So 35 miles/day for 10 days is backpacking. Yep.

Labels promote succinct unambiguous communications. The “basic activity” between completing the JMT in 5 days versus hanging out at a lake 5 miles from the trail head is huge.  If I want to learn more about the former I’m going to search for “fastpacking”.

 

[Mike M]

I’d have to agree; fastpacking may OR may not include running, but it definitely puts an emphasis on speed.

 

[Cole B]

So 35 miles/day for 10 days is backpacking. Yep.

Labels promote succinct unambiguous communications. The “basic activity” between completing the JMT in 5 days versus hanging out at a lake 5 miles from the trail head is huge.  If I want to learn more about the former I’m going to search for “fastpacking”.

Ok, at what miles per day does backpacking becomes fastpacking?

[Mike M]

33.2 miles :)

I kid- depends on the terrain- “fast” miles on the AT aren’t going to be the same as “fast” miles on SHR

as far as I know there are no finite definitions for any of this stuff, just a term that helps a little in context

[Cole B]

Agreed.  That’s what I was getting at when I said it’s just labels. As with most things, the meaning depends on your own perspective.

[W I S N E R !]

Personally, when Peter Bakwin talks about “fastpacking”, I tend to listen pretty carefully.  So much of what I know has been taken from his playbook.  (Thanks by the way!)

[Peter Bakwin]

When Jim Knight coined the term “fastpacking” in 1988 he mentioned running, backpacking and speed: “We were wilderness running. Power hiking. Kind of backpacking, but much faster. More fluid. Neat. Almost surgical. Get in. Get out. I call it fastpacking.” So, in a sense we are emphasizing different aspects of the original definition. Fastpacking is definitely backpacking, in that some overnight/sleeping is involved (otherwise it’s day hiking/running). But the term adds additional information – it’s <i>fast</i>.

[Cole B]

“We were wilderness running. Power hiking. Kind of backpacking, but much faster. More fluid. Neat. Almost surgical. Get in. Get out. I call it fastpacking.”

That’s an excellent definition. When in doubt go to the original source.

So, in a sense we are emphasizing different aspects of the original definition.

I think that’s a fair assessment.  I probably first heard the term in the context of ultrarunning, so I’ve always associated it with running.  Maybe others were introduced to it through the lens of long distance, high mileage hiking (Speedhiking? I just realized that was the other half of the title of this forum.)

In any case, the OP wanted advice on trying fastpacking for the first time, and I think there’s been good advice and good discussion to that end.

 

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