- Mar 27, 2017 at 11:26 pm #3459929
I am an experienced lightweight backpacker. I want to do some local fastpacking trips.
Mar 28, 2017 at 5:49 am #3459946
- Should I go ahead an order the Ultimate Direction Fastpack 30? What one or two other packs should I consider?
- I want to be able to run
- What trail weight do I need to attain to reasonably be able to run. Base weight seems a pretty useless metric here. When I set out with food and water for a one or two night trip, what’s the weight I should be shooting for? This way I can mess around with a gearlist and see where I want to make compromises?
- The nice thing about going on one or two night trips is I will be reasonably assured of the weather.
- What questions SHOULD I be asking, but am not?
Ito JakuchuBPL Member
I’m not super experienced with the camping part, but I run and speed hike 2~3 times a week up good steep rocky trail.
I think number one is look at fit. Two is look at volume. Three is look at ergonomics / functionality.
The fit depends on your body a bit, but I do have to say the UD 30 is the more bouncy option I have in my house.
A very good fitting option I have is the Montane Dragon 20. The least nice thing was/is the proprietary bottles. They fixed that in the new version of this vest.
The best fitting option I have is one I recently changed to, called the Salomon S-Lab Peak 20. This thing is so comfortable I can carry 1~2Kg more than the UD30 and have it feel the same. The least bounce of any vest I tried. Bottle pockets a bit tight, but normal PET bottles fit them. Expensive.
I like that the UD30 is more bomber. But I find it less good fitting and more bouncy so I often end up using the Salomon.
Weight wise I think it depends on your pack, your back, the trail etc. I have descended from 3000 to 1500 meters with a 8Kg pack with a light frame inside. Was quite some bounce but a lot of fun. Descended Mount Fuji with the same pack and weight (running up was a no go – altitude got to me).
Not sure but I think somewhere between 5~7Kg is common range.
If your total weight is high due to food and water you might want to ask how much actual running you will do. Some people would opt for a pack with a light frame. I wouldn’t hesitate to try some running with my normal pack – even though it might be less than ideal, it might give you an idea of what running with weight feels like on your trails.
I don’t think you need to necessarily run to do fast packing though. A lot of people set good times by just going at a brisk, but moreover very steady, pace with little to no breaks.
I don’t think there are any rules though. As long as you have fun.Mar 28, 2017 at 11:28 am #3460011
So you think I should be looking at 20L rather than 30L packs?
Other gear questions:
I have a Marmot Hydrogen. I know I could save weight going to a quilt.
I have a MYOG Polycryo 1/2 A-Frame I could take, or I could buy a bivy.
Do people bring trekking poles? Can you run with those?!Mar 28, 2017 at 12:08 pm #3460019
you don’t necessarily need to run to call yourself a fastpacker, just keep moving at a good pace for a long period of time, maybe 16 hour days or so.
I think giving you a target pack weight number to try and hit would be a disservice to you. you need to decide what weight works for you, depending on conditions, distance, time etc. that said, I have gently jogged the downhill sections of a fastpack with up to 15 lbs on my back. but the key to a good trip is a steady consistent pace.
trekking poles are acceptable and used often (though I rarely use them myself).
eat while you are walking/running, eat small amounts frequently, keep water stops very short. if you run but then take long breaks you are defeating yourself.Mar 28, 2017 at 3:00 pm #3460076
At this time I have absolutely no interest in hiking for 16 hours in a day! I like running, and would like to combine running with backpacking. My goal isn’t to cover as much ground as possible, my goal is to get a kit light enough that I could run instead of hike, because I enjoy trail running and sleeping outside. Maybe this could evolve over time, but that’s my goal for now.Mar 28, 2017 at 4:19 pm #3460093
Ito JakuchuBPL Member
I didn’t mean to propose one volume over the other. If your gear doesn’t fit it will just dangle and shake outside your pack. Perhaps you know from other packs you have if the gear you want to take fits.
If you need the 30L the UD30 is for sure a great option. Good pockets, lots of space. You should be able to get the older model with a bit of a discount too.Mar 28, 2017 at 5:08 pm #3460109
Well, I am trying to get a sense of what one can realistically run with. If you think 30 is too big to really cruise along with, then I can get a 20L and then work to get a kit together that fits in there. I think I can set up shelter, cook kit, clothing with what I have/super cheap. I might have to get a new bag, not sure.
The montane dragon 20l is also on sale online now. I could go to REI and buy a 20 and 30 l pack to take home and try packing, and just leave the tags on and return them after I have a better sense of my needs I suppose.
ThanksMar 28, 2017 at 5:10 pm #3460110
by your reply to me above, you do not really want to be a fast packer. you simply want to be an SUL guy, and that’s fine.Mar 28, 2017 at 5:22 pm #3460113
Jake JBPL Member
I have an Osprey Rev 24 and it carries really well. It’s pretty much a running vest/small pack hybrid with a hip belt. I’ve loaded it down with about 15 lbs a few times and went on fast hikes/runs and when upping the pace it doesn’t bounce around. Has a couple of small pockets on the hip belt and a few other stretchy pockets on the shoulder straps.
I had planned on doing a fast pack trip out of the Wolverton TH in SEKI then linking up with the HST and going up to the Big Arroyo Patrol Cabin as an out and back over a couple of days but some things popped up and I ended up having to cancel.Mar 28, 2017 at 5:23 pm #3460114
I guess I took Fast Pack too literally? What does SUL have to do with running?
But, I can change the title of post if it’s misleading. I guess I meant help me pick a first running pack with the enough volume to do 1-2 night trips.Mar 28, 2017 at 6:08 pm #3460136
as I’m sure you know, SUL means super ultra light.
its connection to running is that you enter the pack weight space where your pack is so light that running finally starts to make sense.Mar 28, 2017 at 6:44 pm #3460145
Nick BBPL Member
FYI- I have a Salomon SLab Peak 20 size XL for sale here.
As Ito said, it is a great fitting pack with little bounce. If I did more running than walking, it’s what I would go with. But the UD FP20 fits my style better so I’m keeping that one instead.Mar 29, 2017 at 12:23 am #3460213
Bri WBPL Member
I’m glad you posted this because I’m on the fence with which pack to get for fastpacking this Spring and Summer. I have all of my gear, and my baseweight is about 4.5-4.9 lbs, depending on the weather, but I couldn’t decide on which pack. I’ve tried a Terra Nova Cuben back but I barely held up on a 2-night SUL hiking trip (no running or speed hiking). Now I know why a Cuben Fastpack isn’t the smartest. I currently run with a Salomon Skin Pro 10 and a 250mL belt, and I love the fit. If it had an extra 5 L I might be able to fit everything, but it has too small of a volume for anything more than 1 night. I’ve heard so many good things about the UD Fastpack 20, but I think this post is pushing me more toward the Salomon bc of the decreased bouncy-ness. Plus the Salomon appears more weatherproof to me.
I was curious about the new UD Fastpack 35 and its removable hip belt; I thought it might be a good option this summer in the Sierras where a Scout bear canister might be required. Maybe I’ll use my REI discount on that pack. So many variables!
Whichever pack you go with, please let us know how it fits! I’ll be posting my gear list soon for a Rogue River Trail fastpacking 1-2 nighter in May. I’ll be doing some longer runs with a loaded pack in a few weeks, and then I’ll tweak my gear list as needed based on those runs and BPL’s suggestions. There’s always such great advice on this forum!Mar 29, 2017 at 7:09 pm #3460416
I have the UD 20 and love it. I have used it to do an August fast 20km run to a campsite in Algonquin on the Highlands trail. For me, this means I drive three hours from Toronto, park at the trailhead 3 or 4 pm on Saturday, run 20km in, hang out overnight, have a fire by the lake, them run back next morning to car by 10am. Home Sunday by 2pm. Its the only way for me in Toronto with wife/job/kids.
In terms of gear, I have only done this in perfect weather. I take a TR Xlite, a Katabatic 40f, and MLD Superlight bivy and a tiny Calder Cone/Esbit for dinner/breakfast. A bunch of powerbars. Not much extra clothes, small FAK. UD soft bottle, aquamira. That’s about it.
UD 20 works great for this, maybe even a hint too large. I’m looking now at the UD FP 15, which might be a little more appropriate for my load.
But the UD 20 is well designed, the pockets are very versatile and fit for me is good, no bounce. I also use it just as a “run home from work” pack, holding my work clothes and lunch bins from the day, works great for that too.Mar 30, 2017 at 1:11 pm #3460583
Ryan SmithBPL Member
@violentgreenLocale: East TN
For me, the Montane Dragon 20 is almost perfect for a long day or an overnight. Excellent fit, little bounce and practically waterproof to boot. Couple nights is starting to stretch it. There are 2-3 running packs in the 30L range for longer trips, but they start creeping up towards 2 pounds though.
If the Montane is on sale I would pick it up.Mar 30, 2017 at 8:40 pm #3460670
Well, based on comments and further research in the forum, it seems like the main choices for vest style 20l Packs are the UD FP 20 (on sale for $100), the Montane Via Dragon (on sale for $145), and the Salomon S-Lab Peak 20 (not on sale anywhere, $225).
Since I have never done an overnight running trip (I guess it’s not fastpacking unless I hike for 16 hours lol) I figured I better grab the UD pack and try it out. It seems like I should be able to sell it if it doesen’t work for me.
Once I get it and try to pack it, I will post here with some thoughts. I don’t have all the gear I need to assemble a sufficiently light kit yet.
Thanks for everyone’s help so far. Especially Ito who has had all three of these packs and sent me detailed info via PMMar 31, 2017 at 2:46 pm #3460802
Greg FBPL Member
@gregfLocale: Canadian Rockies
I just got the UD20, was only $70 on massdrop recently so if you are looking to buy and resell the 20 you might lose more than you think.
I loaded up the pack and fit the following plus 6lbs of food.
montbell 30 deg bag
small thermarest neo air
montbell excite down
long sleeve polypro shirt and bottom
OR Helium II rainshell
Plus the little stuff.
I have bear spray and 600ml water in front pockets, a 1 litre bag of water and food in the side pockets, the Helium and tarp in the back pocket and everything else inside. Weighs about 14-15lbs. I can run slowly at this pace with some movement. I think 10lbs is what you need to get down to to be comfortable for long runs.
As for definitions fastpacking per Bawkin is moving to accomplish your objective as quickly as possible involving an overnight. This definition focuses on the goal rather than the style of movement.
The Ultra community seems to define fastpacking as putting way too heavy of gear in a vest style pack so you can’t run and going backpacking covering only normal UL backpacker distances (kidding)
What your doing I think should be called runpacking because you are looking for specific Gear advice to be able to run while backpacking which has its own needs. And it fits well with bikepacking which also has its own gear needs.
But the definitions only matter so far as to ensure people are talking about the same thing so proper advice can be given.Mar 31, 2017 at 4:38 pm #3460818
I think my approach would be a form of fastpacking. A 20km run in, sleep overnight, a 20km run out. SUL gear, albeit in perfect weather.
I like “runpacking” too though.
I suppose it is also an S24O – or a sub 24 hour overnight – which is a term from cycle touring per Grant Petersen of Rivendell Bicycles or a “micro-adventure” per Alistair Humphreys.
Lots of terms and definitions to play with here!Mar 31, 2017 at 8:23 pm #3460869
Greg FBPL Member
@gregfLocale: Canadian Rockies
I like micro adventure.
This summer I have a few Bike/Hike/Runs, bike up fire/4wd roads then go off tail to a destination , stay over night and then come out the next day.Mar 31, 2017 at 8:40 pm #3460877
Hiking MaltoBPL Member
I do a lot of what you would probably call fastpacking, 40+ mile days with very light gear. I also tend to do more walking than running and do very long days. Having said that, I do run with my normal gear, base about 7lbs. including my MLD Burn. In the end success is going to be less about the gear and more about mental and physical fitness. My two cents.Mar 31, 2017 at 8:48 pm #3460878
Bri WBPL Member
Just got the Salomon S-Lab Peak 20 in the mail today! It’s really awesome. I wish Salomon would include instruction manuals with their packs, because there are so many straps and features to figure out! I removed the foam back pad, and I’ll likely remove the internal divider and excess straps once I get the fit dialed in. I took it out on a short run today with about 5 lbs. of weight and I experienced zero bounce. It actually felt more skin-like than my Skin Pro 10! I’ll be going on longer runs with it this week, and will slowly be adding more weight each run.Apr 1, 2017 at 7:37 am #3460928
@gregf, even better . . . multi-sport/modality micro-adventure that is S24O including fast-packing with an SUL base weight. You’ve covered all the bases! ;-)Apr 5, 2017 at 1:47 pm #3461686
Cole BBPL Member
@cole-bLocale: The Edge of the Linville Gorge
To the O.P., I found this link helpful for learning about fastpacking.
And for me, running is definitely the central activity of fastpacking. I think of it as a long trail run that lasts at least one night. But that doesn’t mean I run every step. There’s plenty walking (or “power hiking”) on even my shorter trail runs. Usually on the uphills.Apr 5, 2017 at 4:12 pm #3461721
Michael GillenwaterBPL Member
@mwgillenwaterLocale: Seattle area
Slightly off topic, but if there are other “fast packers”, “adventure runners” in the Seattle area that would like to do some overnight trips with a partner, let me know. I’ve done a few and love it.Apr 5, 2017 at 9:04 pm #3461785
Kevin BBPL Member
@newmexikevLocale: Western New Mexico, USA
Cole B, thanks for posting that article from Meghan Hicks. Long and detailed and clearly based on extensive experience. The article has a few updated sections from its original posting on irunfar in 2014.
I wonder what shelters are in her quiver now and find the ‘just arrived in camp’ meal of Ramen interesting.
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