Help comparing down jackets

[Alex V]

I also posted this on reddit in u/ultralight. I could use folks expertise here on how to rationalize the 1000fp in the Ghost Whisperer UL compared to a more traditional 105g 850/900fp jacket.

Item: Down Jacket
Baseweight: 10lb
Location/s of use: Cascades & Olympics
Season/s of use: three-season
Expected temperatures: 20-50F Ideal weight of the item: 7-11oz

Additional Information:
Trying to decide between Arcteryx Cerium LT, Mountain Hardware Ghost Whisperer UL, and Feathered Friends EOS.

It seems like the Cerium LT is the best deal (on sale). FF Eos should be a little warmer than the Cerium due to the 900fp down over the 850 in the Cerium yet same amount of down (105g).

I’m not sure how to factor in the GW UL. With basic math, it seems the UL version would have the same amount of warmth as the regular GW despite the lower weight. 1000fp is 20% more efficient than 800fp. The regular GW has 80g of 800fp [1]. Therefore, 65g of 1000fp is about equal to 80g of 800 fp. Is anyone able to verify my calculations here? Is it as simple as “Do I need more or less warmth?” Did I miss anything? The GW UL also uses 5D fabric. Is that too whispy for practical use as “stop” insulation?

Jacket – Overall Weight – Down Weight + Fill Power – Price (USD)
Arcteryx Cerium LT – 10.8 oz – 105g 850 FP – $264 – on sale
Mountain Hardware Ghost Whisperer UL – 6.67 Oz – 65g[2] 1000fp – $281 on sale
Feathered Friends EOS – 10.6 oz – 105g 900+FP – $340

[1] https://andrewskurka.com/backpacking-clothing-stop-insulated-jacket-pants/

[2] The amount of down by weight is not listed officially for the GW UL, but I confirmed the weight by calling mountain hardware. It’s 60g for size small and 65 for size medium.

[Michael B]

What about Rab (Kaon or Microlight) and Montbell (Superior) offerings? I recently picked up a Rab Continuum on the used forum here, loving it – the fit and finish is superb. Just trying to help widen your options, but maybe you are decided on those brands you listed for specific reasons.

[Jim Morrison]

I don’t know if this will help you or not, but….

I wonder if you are overconfident about making decisions based on such precise calculations.  I have 2 UltraLite down jackets, a couple of heavier ones, and a very nice synthetic jacket.  I have found out, after many years climbing in the Cascades and Olympics, that for the three seasons it is a toss-up between my MontBell Superior Down Jacket (178$ 7.3 ounces, 800 fill power) and my “My-Trail” hooded 800 fill power jacket that weighs a little more but is proportionally warmer. (I don’t think it is available any longer).

So my thoughts are perhaps not in tune with most ultralight enthusiasts, but weight is only important relative to many other factors.  What is reasonably lightweight is relative to your conditioning, the elevation gain expected, your body weight, even the condition of your party.  I doubt the few ounces difference between my two UL down jackets would ever make me feel more tired, or my pack more burdensome.

Another question I would have is the honesty and significance of fill power. I have looked at two similar jackets with 700 and 800 fill power and the same weight and I couldn’t tell any difference whatsoever in the loft.  It may be a fallacy to believe you would ever feel the difference in the warmth in spite of what careful measurements and specifications say.

 

 

[bradmacmt]

I’ve had both the Arcteryx Cerium and MH Ghost Whisperer, and got rid of both. I consider both inferior to the FF Eos.

[dirtbag]

Personally,  I think you have gone waaaay too far down that rabbit hole!!!  You are thinking too much about something so medial. You will NOT notice 4 or 5 ounces weight difference in a jacket.. while hiking or sitting around camp, or even packed away in your pack while hiking.  With a base weight of 10 lbs.. you are there already. Buy whichever one fits you better and is most comfortable, no need to worry about a few ounces at this point.. especially over a down jacket!

[Allen C]

I have both a Cerium LT (size L, 11.3 oz) and a Ghost Whisperer (Size M, 7.8 oz, older version with 800 fill Q-shield down). The Cerium is a few ounces heavier but significantly warmer. I tend to use the Cerium anytime I expect temps to get below freezing, and the GW for warmer weather or as a second puffy in winter when I’m using an active insulation layer like a Nano-Air or Proton LT. I have no experience with the Eos.

IMO the ghost whisperer is not warm enough for stationary use in temperatures below freezing. If you want one puffy to use as your primary warm layer into the 20’s I’d rule it out – to me it’s a 1-2 season jacket unless layered with a warm fleece and/or another puffy, in which case you gain some versatility but lose the weight advantage. The Cerium is a good choice for your use case, the Eos is likely a good choice as well. Outdoor gear lab has a good comparo, i’m sure other sites do as well.

The Cerium LT does run a bit small so you may want to size up if you choose that one. I wear medium in just about everything but found the medium too small and the large just right.

[Marcus]

This awesome chart from Reddit may help

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ceVWWwGTdc1KcTkIQFWscILPtA2pbgpq0UQQIq1D6gE/edit#gid=0

I run cold at rest (no extra ‘insulation’ on me). I found the GW hooded jacket too cold in the mid-40’s and sold it quickly. Now I sport a GW Vest for summer nights down to the high 40’s in conjunction with a merino base, Macpac Nitro, and wind shell over all that, and that’s only comfortable with limited wind.

If its lower than the high 40’s I switch over to my MB Alpine Light or Plasma 1000. Both are about the same warmth, the P1K just being 6oz lighter. I havent taken those far below freezing (spoiled by SoCal weather) but was just in 37* (thermometer confirmed) with a howling 15-25mph variable wind last weekend and the AL kept me toasty with only a base layer. (my legs were cold though – now I’m looking for down pants)

I’ll second the sentiment, Down gear is the BEST weight I carry. Im rarely cold and its because I typically carry more down than I need, which at most adds up to 1lb. Choose the right jacket and dont worry too much about a couple-few oz.

That said, the P1k parka is probably my favorite piece of gear due to its incredible warmth:weight ratio.

I’ve found that the 3500-ish cubic inches of fill is about the right level of insulation for me (Fill power x Oz of fill = cubic fill volume). The P1k is 3400 and the AL is 3840. Both are about the perfect warmth for me to around freezing. With a thicker base + fleece I could easily see them being great into the low 20’s or high teens.

[J R]

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: contact Ben at Goosefeet Gear, he will customize a jacket to your exact measurements and specs, you’ll get better quality and lighter weight for the warmth (or more warmth for the weight) at an equal if not lower cost than the fu-fu brands.

Here’s a review from Ryan Jordan: https://backpackinglight.com/goosefeet-down-sweater-review-first-looks/

I got a jacket from Ben a few years ago with 3oz 950 down, custom specs, total weight under 6oz.

 

[Marcus]

to 2nd what JR said, in the Reddit comparison I posted, a Goosefeet custom jacket is the warmth:weight king among many, many very pricey, light, puffy jackets.

If you truly want the best/lightest/warmest, Goosefeet custom is unbeatable

[Bill in Roswell]

Yep, that was the first article I thought of when I saw the subject header. I spent a lot of time studying this chart and comparing data. It’s nice that you can control how the data is listed.

For instance, looking for a new puffy that is light, warm and fits me (5′-7″, 210 lbs). First thought Ghost Whisperer or Arcteryx Cerium LT. But guess what, the REI Down Jacket 2 is as warm, costs less than half as much, though it does weigh more. It worked fine for last winter but I want something a bit warmer, like a Timmermade or Malachowski. Read the method behind the data to better understand how baffles and seams are addressed. Look under the Help link at the top of the page, far right.

[Victor Jorgensen]

I’ll third JR’s recommendation of GooseFeet Gear.  I have a vest that weighs 5.5 ounces, with 3 ounces of 950 fill down made by Ben.  I am so happy with the custom fit, as it doesn’t “ride up” when I sit.  He is currently making matching sleeves containing 1.5 ounces of 950 fill down.  The combo offers some versatility, and lots of warmth for under 9 ounces.  It could have been made even lighter with 7D material, except I chose the 20D material on the exterior for more durability and wind blockage.

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