Heat exchange pots? Are they worth the extra weight?

https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/pots-with-heat-exchangers/

Rereading now

I read that as Yes/No/Maybe in warm weather but as a Yes when the weather gets colder and the size of the pot gets bigger but that close fitting windshield ie a skirt works best of all

So why don’t we see more pots with integral skirts?

So why don’t we see more pots with integral skirts?
Fragility. Try packing one. A windscreen is so much easier.

Cheers

The windscreen for my canister stove is a skirt. When not in use, it fits inside the pot. It attaches it to the pot via the bent ends. It has holes in it for ventilation. I made it following instructions on BPL. I added another piece of aluminum to act as a heat shield between the burner and the canister.

I run the stove at a real low flame (just a bit hotter than an alcohol stove). You have to be sure the canister doesn’t get hot. I think that’s why you don’t see these for sale. Too dangerous.

Ages ago I had one of these, not very light, aluminum on steel, but very efficient. Olicamp Hurricane Cooker

When I did the math (based on fuel consumption numbers found on BPL) it only made since on long trips( ~14 days) without resupply.  If you’re in a big group or boil a lot of water it might be less.

That Olicamp looks just like the picture in Monty Alfords book of his winter camp cooker

If I’d seen it I would have been happy to pay $20- plus postage

Erica I could see a small problem using gas canisters directly but not if using an MSR or a remote canister stove. Would Titanium foil be a possible option for the skirt do you think? I’m thinking of the TOAKS windscreen as a possible donor.

“will a heat exchange pot be more efficient than taking that extra weight in a decent windscreen?”

A decent windscreen can be very light.  While I’ve made UL HX fins in my garage and attached them to SUL “pots”, commercially available HX pots are considerably heavier than the lightest non-HX pots.

And there are weather conditions in which you NEED a windscreen to get any cooking done.

So first, have a good windscreen.

“Thinking (of) big groups using pots to a full US Gallon or bigger or for dedicated snow melting use for medium sized parties in really cold weather”

Then, yes, HX pots can save you much more fuel weight than they add in pot weight.  I do a fair number of group (4 to 10 people) trips in winter here in Alaska.  Even using 32F water, a large HX pot (I have many) lets you cook group meals more easily, and lets everyone have more tea, coffee and hot chocolate for whatever amount of fuel you’ve brought.  More boiled water means less treated (filter, UV, chemical) water.  When you have to use snow or ice (sometimes the lakes freeze 18+ inches thick and chainsaws weigh A LOT), then HX pots come ahead even sooner.

Here’s one perspective: If I’m packing for a multi-night family trip, I’m bringing an HX pot (another 3-5 ounces versus a non-HX pot) or one more 220-gram canister (357 grams with metal = 13 ounces).

5 < 13

Thanx David

That puts it in real perspective for me. Large size HX pots are not a common item here although the solo system ones are very readily available

Heat exchangers only add extra surface area to the bottom of a pot. As such, they add mass, also. Like David says, The more water you heat, the more efficient they are. Iff it takes 9gm to “boil” a liter of water at 45F->210F in open still air, it can take 10 minutes with a butane stove. With a heat exchanger, it will take 6 minutes. Because the heat exchanger fins can transfer heat faster, you can turn the heat up a bit more. You can save time, OR, you can save fuel.

A windscreen or heat concentrator will simply direct heat to the pot. This uses less fuel by directing the heat you produce. Again, you can save time, OR, you can save fuel.

There is no real difference between the two systems. Usually, you do not see an open fin design (similar to the older JetBoil frypans.) These often include a heat concentrator (wind screen) near the ends, for example. Most of the HX pots we see are actually a combination of the two methodes.

I’m assuming that the new MSR Stock pot with HX isn’t compatible with my XGK-EX because the flame spread from the burner is bigger than the hole in the pots base

https://www.msrgear.com/stoves/stove-systems/windburner-stock-pot

Or is this not something to worry about?

Decent sized pot tho the actual size/dimensions are not listed; which is annoying

I used aluminum flashing to make a windscreen that slides over my pot. I had the flashing around. It works ok, but has melted slightly where a friend didn’t get the pot right over the stove. Maybe titanium foil would be better, I don’t know. Aluminum melts at about 1200F, titanium at about 3200F. You have to crease the ends of the windscreen so the ends will lock together. Then it will stay on the pot, and you can lift it off the stove and set it down on the edge of the windscreen.

I was thinking of stainless steel cable ties to fix the skirt to the pot

https://www.bunnings.com.au/stahl-7-9-x-370mm-stainless-steel-cable-tie-10-pack_p4430339

and using the TOAKS titanium windsheild for the skirt donor

A titanium skirt is your best option. Hang 4, S Hooks off the HX ports that will support the skirt. Fasten stainless steel pop rivets at strategic places around the skirt to keep an even spacing from the wall of the pot. Have the ends of the skirt fasten together as seen in this video:

http://www.woodgaz-stove.com/titanium-cook-kits-with-titanium-pot-support.php

Stainless steel cable ties will not remain tight on such a large radius.

I’m impressed with the efficiency of the HX pots. I’d go with the 4litre pot until such time as you figure out how to cook and boil water at the same time.

Thin integral skirts would be smashed the first couple of times it is stored in your pulk.

I suppose that fragility was why the early Antarctic and Arctic exploration teams used solid boxes to store the stoves and cooking pots in; loosing your stove and cooking kit would be the death of a party

How about a skirt like this one that clings to the body of the pot ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s51SPhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmODJysiUNcia8N2c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgtzBQ2vvf0

Since I’m British, if tea consumption drops below 3 cups a day that’s a life-threatening emergency.  Whatever the breakeven point on weight, I love the simplicity and speed of my JetBoil system.

I stockpiled 3 JetBoil Sol Ti setups before they stopped making them, and I haven’t yet damaged the fins on any of them (I think they easily melt if you heat them for even a brief few seconds without water, and that was probably the reason that they discontinued them).   I don’t use anything except the cup and burner – no lid, no insulating sleeve, no stabilizer legs, no plastic cup – for a weight of 7.6oz.   The heavier weight of the lightest current JetBoil system might be harder to justify.