Grumpy Old Man here

So we won’t know the answer to the mask thing which is how the thread devolved. Awesome.
I am going with neither of them or both of them were wearing one. We would have been told in OP if it was just the runner that didn’t have one.

Eric moved 10 feet off the trail. that’s plenty without a mask. He’s a bit more exposed from the runner exhaling more heavily.

^^^ still the thread has been allowed to go on and on with all kinds of assumptions and the runner being equated with someone not wearing a mask. Maybe he was wearing one and Erik wasn’t? The right advice for Erik was for him not to behave like that. Do not yell at someone to get off the trail and stop. That is what he should take away from the input. Jumping in to defend him- as if he was wearing a mask and some jerk wasn’t is not a logical step in this discussion.
I find his lack of transparency objectionable.

So I was doing a hike and jogging the downhills. Saw probably 30 people since it was a near to town area. Wore a mask around my neck, pulled it up and stepped to the side when people went by. Most people had masks. Two sets of horseback riders, 9 in all did not wear masks. And both times as I was quietly waiting on the downhill side of the trail for them to pass, the riders, said “talk to the horses, so they don’t think you are a cougar.”

Now I have to talk to their pets too? (Grumpy old man says)

In regard to the death rate of Covid, it’s about 2% around here. Everyone I know who has had it has lasting effects.

I would like everyone to be courteous, no matter the situation. Even if someone is horrifically violating LNT, you catch more flies with honey than vinegar, so yes, talk to them, but get them on your side first. It’s an art form; I hike with a friend who has this down pat! She can make anyone change their ways. I’m not as skilled.

I can see the fear driving the anger here. And I get it, because we’re all scared of catching this thing, and we’re tired of it ruling our lives and our backpacking forums. But the anger isn’t helping anyone.  When someone yells at me, I immediately depart the scene. I usually don’t even give them the chance to tell me what’s wrong; I’m outta there. Figure out what works better?

I’m incredibly lucky that the trails I’ve been hiking and backpacking and skiing since April have not been crowded at all, not enough to worry in the slightest. I know not everyone has that. But maybe there are much less used trails worthy of exploration, especially if you are a high risk person in the case of this virus. Protect yourself. Yes, we should all be protecting each other; seems everyone on here agrees, except the random D-bag. But you can’t make Americans do anything (yet). So find lesser used trails, if I can’t step aside, I will turn my back to them – we’ve done a few back to back do-si-dos in town; that works well.

Let the anger go, if you can, because you’ll stay healthier as a result! (Preacher to self; do this.)

Karen is right; anger doesn’t help.

I thought that Eric yelled because the runner was twenty yards off and he wanted to be heard.

But then he swore at the guy. The thing is, the runner was blowing him off. No chance for honey to do its work. What then? How do you get your point across as the guy blows past you?

I’ve been loud with my views on this thread because I think it’s important to push back when a crowd says, ‘eh, get over it’ when it comes to not observing protocols (it that’s what happened with Eric; we still don’t know.) If someone says “no one cares if a million people die from covid” it’s important to speak up and tell the truth: that attitude is costing lives and causing misery. As was mentioned, many infected people are suffering long term effects.

maybe Eric just wanted to make a point in the five seconds that he had with the runner.

Edward John, you told me to “Get a life”. Well I have a pretty good life in retirement.  But I’d like to keep that life, not lose it to COVID 19.

Katt, I was not wearing a mask due to the exertion of carrying my 35 lb. training pack up a steep trail. And the runner came up on me so fast over a hill that I had no time to grab it from my pocket and put it on. In fact I have never, since this pandemic began, seen a trail user wearing a mask here in Henderson, NV, even under the chin. But I have encountered a few other hikers who politely moved off trail as we approached each other.

Matt, I’ve thought about that side of the equation, maybe the trail runner had moved off trail many times for others. Doubtful but possible. And this being Sunday, as I attended my virtual Episcopal Church service I thought about this post and Christ saying we must forgive each other “… seventy times seven.”  Those of you who gave me gentle reminders on behavior have gently helped me to this realization, enlightenment and peace. Yes, MB, you and I would, at that time, have mutually p1ssed each other off, no doubt. BUT… this was not just a matter of “trail etiquette” but one with possibly deadly consequences <i>for me and maybe permanent damage to him.</i>

SO, Guys, I’m not going to get myself worked up again when this happens, I’m just going to forgive. Some of those hikers know precisely what they are doing and others, “… know not what they do.” Who knows which are which? Best to err on the side of forgiveness.

There you go- forgive and move on. You just released yourself and took a huge step to understanding critically accountability, which in turn helps you to forgive and move on.

@danepacker Erring on the side of forgiveness – yes.

Early in the pandemic I found myself on the opposite side of a similar encounter. It was predawn on a local foothill trail when I came upon two senior hikers. I remember feeling quite conflicted, as this was before the widespread adoption of masks and a local trail etiquette had yet to emerge. I greeted them and chose to walk by through the prairie vegetation maybe ten feet off the trail, aware that I would be trampling a few plants but figuring that in this case it was better than passing close by. But alas, they scolded me for going off trail, harming the vegetation. “I’m so sorry, I totally get it, I’m even a member of the Native Plant Society! but wanted to respect our social distance…” and so on. My apology and explanation fell on deaf ears as they scoffed at the virus. I remember feeling guilty, but also a little angry that they didn’t acknowledge my attempt to show them respect.

My point is, it’s hard to know who you will encounter or where they are in their life situation. I’m glad you came around to forgiveness, it’s a lesson we should all continuously relearn. Extending a little more grace toward others never hurts, unless we count our own pride.

I think if you are in a public space then you need to behave with your fellow citizens in mind. In 2020 that means wearing a mask to protect others when you are in their proximity. Honestly, if you cannot run while wearing a mask you shouldn’t be doing that activity in the public space. To me, public safety during this time of Covid is our shared priority.

For what it is worth, I am a physician and I have been wearing my N95 as much as I can. When at work I am in a state of constant anxiety. I worry about getting Covid. I worry about giving Covid to my family. I worry about giving Covid to my patients. It is very difficult to think that I have to work like this for all of 2021 most likely.

Last week I came down with 102 temperature, my pulse was 130 at rest, and my oxygen level dropped to 89. I vomited. The chills were so bad I could not stop shaking. I am not sure that the runner mentioned in the original post can imagine what it is like to think you are heading towards a ventilator, knowing that you could be dead in a matter of days. Is a life really not worth more than the temporary inconvenience of wearing a $2 bandanna when you pass someone on the trail?

Yes, hike your own hike, run your own run, but please do it in a way that is safe for others.

Lowell

Well said, Lowell.  Thank you for what you do and stay safe.

“Inshallah.”

If God wills it. My father-in-law used to say this with a shrug and a gesture of his hands, palms to the sky. He’d say this about the most difficult things while we chatted about life over a cup of Turkish coffee and a game of backgammon.

I can understand the angry reactions I’m hearing about on trails or here in the forums. At the core, a lot of people are confused and afraid. Some lash out, some put on the armor of denial. Some sooth themselves by seeking fault in others. Some build a wall of stoicism and logic.

Whatever.

Do what you have to do. But some honesty couldn’t hurt.

Maybe admit you’re afraid? I am. There are a lot of things happening in this country to be afraid about, most well beyond your control.

“Inshallah.”

People are terrified of losing control, whether it’s a virus or fear of someone taking their rights away. But maybe we never had it in the first place? Maybe living with 300,000,000 other people requires the humility of surrendering the illusion of that control? Dwelling on this might help with the fear and anger and bravado directed towards others, perhaps giving way to something healthier like the forgiveness mentioned above. Relentlessly seeking who’s to blame is likely a missed opportunity to live your life.

Welcome to being in something together, for better or worse. I know it’s disorienting for those just realizing it. I know we like to think we are in control.

“Inshallah” as my father-in-law would say, squinting into the sun while sitting on the porch. You don’t have to be a believer to understand that beyond your personal actions, what’s going to happen is going to happen.

Craig, yes but Inshallah doesn’t absolve us from taking responsibility towards keeping others safe if we can. Wearing a mask and all the rest isn’t just about fear over loss of control. It does have a positive effect.

At the start of Covid, when hospitals were being overwhelmed with patients, I offered to come in and help screen people at the door or be a runner or perform any menial task to relieve others for more important duties. I was told the most important thing I could do was not get sick and spread covid or anything else for that matter. THAT is what was needed.

In other words, follow best protocols. Nothing is guaranteed, but wearing a mask in public and all the rest will bring about better results than doing nothing and hoping God or chance is favorable today. Not that this is what you’re advocating!

It isn’t God willing people to become sick after attending super spreader events. It’s irresponsible behavior causing all that sickness.

Wow. You guys are being way too tough on Eric.

Yeah. maybe you did overreact a little bit but you’re right that the kid was a douchebag.

Somebody mentioned being the change you want to see; prolly the best advice in the whoel thread!

Keep your chin up and by all means DON’T get off the trails!

Come on Jeffrey, don’t be so reductionist, I’m trying to scratch at something a little deeper.

oops, sorry Craig; I’m been in full high horse mode and it’s hard to stop.

Ha, no worries Jeffrey.

Heres the real problem:

Son is home from school in NYC. Since he was doing remote classes he came home the week ago well in advance of Thanksgiving, so he could isolate for two weeks before maybe going to see his 70 yr old  grandmother.

A big group of his friends still at school got the bright idea to go to a karaoke night in the city…………25 students now have coronavirus.    one of them who was going to go see his 90-year-old grandmother got tested first before he was going to go home only to find out that now he can’t go and then everybody else got tested and nobody can go home for Thanksgiving.

It sucks to be a young person ( maybe older too) who wants to go out right now and socialize,  but night spots all should be be closed down completely.  People are just morons about stuff like that.

jscott is right on

act responsibly so infections don’t go even higher and overwhelm hospitals even more

it’s not fair to hospital workers

Eric?

I’ve done a lot of hiking during the pandemic.  I get off the trail more than 6 feet.  Okay, I’m not perfect but pretty good.  I don’t moralize against other hikers, they each have to make their own decision, I just focus on getting off trail.  If far enough off I’ll say “hi”.

pet pieve – people stop on the trail for a break at a place difficult to walk around them.  Get off the Fing trail so people can get by!  The same applies other times but especially during a pandemic.  But, again, I don’t lay any moral trips on them, just get around the best I can.

Actually, brief encounters out doors are unlikely to transmit an infection.  If you stopped and talked to someone enthusiastically for 15 minutes, the downwind person could get infected?

Maybe it’s just relieving the anxiety of others?

Maybe it’s just relieving the anxiety of others?

Most likely, Jerry.  That in itself is worth stepping off the trail and/or wearing a mask.  Why make others suffer unnecessarily?

A big group of his friends still at school got the bright idea to go to a karaoke night in the city…………25 students now have coronavirus. 

You’re touching on something really important here, MB.  My brother has a successful karaoke business that he has suspended since March because he recognized the danger.  Swapping of indoor air, alcohol, and singing are surefire combination to spread the virus.

Right now, many of us are planning Thanksgiving get-togethers.  College students are returning home to spend time indoors with older loved one who may be at greater risk.  Lots of indoor air will be swapped.

Here’s a simple calculator to determine your risk of spreading or getting virus. You just enter your zip code, what kind of activities you have planned, number of people gathering, indoors or out, masked or not.  The calculator will tell you the level of risk.  Stay safe, everyone.

https://mycovidrisk.app/

I don”t want to pile on Eric, but the chances of catching COIVID from some guy running down the trail is like lottery odds. Ben got yelled at for wearing a mask and Eric screams at a dude for not wearing one. You can’t win. But the title of the thread shows that Eric already knows he was being cantankerous. At least he’s fair minded enough to confess it. Masks are good and COVID is contagious but no need to overreact. The runner probably thought: “lighten up pops.”

^^^ nope. Thanks to a bunch of posters that jumped to conclusions now people think that  the runner was not wearing a mask. What we know for sure is that Erik was not wearing one. Maybe the runner was  but his crime was not to stop/move to the side.
Hard to say who is to blame more here but not wearing a mask and yelling at someone else coming your way, regardless of them wearing a mask or not- is NOT the way to go.

The whole notion of someone going downhill yielding to a hiker(s) going up doesn’t hold true in real world terms because those going down are almost always moving faster. It’s reminds me of the signs I see at multi-use trailheads around Flagstaff that read: BIKES MUST YIELD TO HIKERS, LOL! The mountain bikers around there ride like a bat out of hell and you’d best be alert to see/hear them coming and quickly step aside. Most will say “thank you” as they blow past you though.

I used to run; you can’t run hard and also wear a mask, even here[ Victoria Australia] when in full lockdown they have allowed runners to not wear the face mask when running. Also it’s almost impossible to stop on the downhill or move off the path. Your choice to not wear a mask due to the exertion Eric, you have to face up to the consequences of not doing so, your choice and your responsibility
That “Rule” applies to horse drawn carts and motor vehicles, it’s never applied to walkers in the real world.

‘it was all about him’. Might want to rethink that one.