Grumpy Old Man here

“Maybe neither of them were. Then what?”

Hey Erik: (me, yelling); wear a D@ymn! mask! Have it available to pull up when you encounter people.

wear it around your neck. The girls will still like you. It won’t wreck your charisma. Here’s Leonard Cohen, I’m Your Man:

“If you want a lover
I’ll do anything you ask me to
And if you want another kind of love
I’ll wear a mask for you…”

so there ya go, straight from the horses mouth!

Uphill, downhill, COVID, precovid, I just step aside and let the other person pass.

Simple solution.

It would be nice if we didn’t have to trample off the trail. LNT. Down in Northern Colorado, where we hike frequently, we’re starting to see trail damage. Lots of people down there getting off the trail to avoid each other.

There’s very little data about Covid transmission outdoors. Outdoors is better, for sure – wind, air volume dilution. Hiking and running are great – proximity to others is usually brief.

But people are scared, and fear causes anxiety. So we punish those who have greater levels of fear than others? Doesn’t really feel like community-building to me.

Pull your mask up when you pass by somebody, especially the elderly. Let’s honor them a little, give them a little bit of feeling of security as they try to find some peace in the outdoors during a very stressful time.

You can argue the science all you want (I do) to justify that you don’t need to wear a mask on a trail, but you can’t argue the benefits of just being empathetic to what others are going through right now. And the cost to you, to decrease anxiety for them, is pretty damn low. Cost = wearing a mask, giving the right away if you’re “running downhill” etc.

@book

Wear a neck buff and pull it up.

A study by Duke University indicates that using a neck gaiter as a mask could be worse for Covid transition than not wearing a mask.

Also, for your own protection, don’t wear your mask under your chin – you risk contaminating it if you’ve been near someone emitting infectious droplets.

“Also, for your own protection, don’t wear your mask under your chin – you risk contaminating it if you’ve been near someone emitting infectious droplets.”

That’s why you pull it up over your mouth and nose when you encounter people. The logic of this statement is, ‘don’t wear a mask at all-others will contaminate it’. And it’s true that early studies were ambivalent about the efficacy of masks. That’s not true anymore–if you disinfect your mask. Easy to do: spritz it with alcohol after you’ve been out and about. Or toss it and wear a new one.

this is too much to go into, but: masks are efficacious if worn properly. think about it: hospital workers wear masks. Every one of them. do you want to go into a hospital today where masks aren’t being worn? they’re efficacious.

Thanks to Ryan for his reasoned post. I’ll just add: it’s not just a matter of the baseless fears of the elderly that we’re concerned with. Take a look at the latest infection rates. Then look  again. And again, and listen to what the CDC and all other experts in the field are saying.

Let me put in terms that the youngsters can understand: STD’s. How do you feel about those who blow off using proper protection as they sleep around?

Here in the SF bay area people got behind Covid prevention right off the bat because of the recent history of AIDs.  In those earlier years people initially blew off concerns about transmission and tens of thousands died. They didn’t want to change their behavior. It resulted in a catastrophe.

people here–and not just the old cranky fearful dumb ones–take transmission seriously. 256,000 people in the U.S. are dead from Covid over the last 8 months. Do people yet get that?

William Chilton, I misunderstood what you were saying about not wearing a used mask under your chin. that’s a very good point. My apologies.

I’ll get off my high horse now.

As one old man to another “Jeez Eric; Get a life”

Medical workers wear masks historically because it’s reasonable, to avoid infecting patients.  Not to avoid infecting themselves.

Many many medical workers in the US have already been exposed to covid, in spite of wearing masks. My daughter is one, a PA student who did clinical rotations thru it. So was the doctor and the nurse that she worked with on that rotation.

People do realize 250k have died. My observation is, they just dont particularly care.  Once we figured out the mortality rate was 0.1%, not 10%,   people relaxed…a lot.  People relax because they don’t think they’re in the high risk group…..even though 40% of adults are obese, with accompanying medical problems issues.

You can not like that, but its what it is.

People have choosen to not live in fear  and take some risks.  Because the option isn’t really living at all.

This has never been about numbers.

It’s about rate. It’s about not overrunning healthcare systems. People are okay with 250,000 dead….. And they’ll be okay with 1 million as well.

When you can’t stop it you can only slow it.

And it was for most of year.

eventually the number that will die from it will be the number that will die from it.  The only thing that can change that, is vaccines that are successful long term. Or virus mutations. Not masks. Not distancing.

“People have choosen to not live in fear  and take some risks.  Because the option isn’t really living at all.”

Both Erik and the runner could have pulled on a mask to 30 seconds…and still be living full and event filled lives. Try it! it’s easy.

“People are okay with 250,000 dead….. And they’ll be okay with 1 million as well.”

People? Everyone? You, speaking for everyone? I’m not ok with it and the last I checked I was a real live person living a full and adventurous life.

Um, masks protect the wearer and those around.

eventually the number that will die from it will be the number that will die from it.  The only thing that can change that, is vaccines that are successful long term. Or virus mutations. Not masks. Not distancing.

Actually, no.  From a public health perspective, the whole point of wearing masks and physical  distancing is to SLOW the rate of transmission until we can get to herd immunity through vaccination.  The slower the transmission, the more lives can be saved.

The alternative is to just “let ‘er rip” and let the chips fall where they may.  This, in my mind, is unconscionable.

“People? Everyone? You, speaking for everyone? I’m not ok with it and the last I checked I was a real live person living a full and adventurous life.”

well the proof is in front of you because nobody’s demanding that everything be shut down again.  In fact people are fighting that and demanding that it not be shut down.  Hence, they are fine with the way things are. You may not be.

“Actually, no.  From a public health perspective, the whole point of wearing masks and physical  distancing is to SLOW the rate of transmission until we can get to herd immunity through vaccination.  The slower the transmission, the more lives can be saved.”

Thats exactly what I said……. It takes a vaccine to quelch this….. And it takes one that gives long-lasting results.   The world will never be in a position to keep vaccinating people repeatedly every 6 months.  Or coming up with new vaccines because the virus mutate. Wear a mask all you like, but without vaccines eventually you’re probsbly going to get it…anyway. unless you dedicate yourself to becoming a hermit.   We did that for a couple of months and people had enough of that. Theyd rather take their chances.   even in nyc, parents are protesting shutting down the schools again they had their kids home and they want them in school now, regardless.

I think you’re missing my point, MB.  Let’s face it, we all have Covid fatigue.  It’s not an easy time we’re going through. But we do have some degree of control over how many people die based on the actions we take.

And you’re missing my point.

We’ve been wearing masks and social distancing for 6 months…… That’s not the reason it’s spiking…….. Nor is it the solution.

People want to feel like they’re in control of situations, whether they are or not. They invent  superstitions to make them think they are, since the dawn of mankind.

Masks haven’t stopped coronavirus anymore then fluoride in toothpaste and drinking water stopped cavities….. But people simply don’t want to know what else they can do….. Because the real answers are too hard for them.

Stay away from other people, everyone.

to get angry because somebody doesn’t wear a mask outdoors borders on irrational behavior. Stay away from them if it upsets you.  you should stay away from them anyway everybody should and then there would not be a problem.  Instead of chastising them for not wearing a mask.

Well, I guess we’re all entitled to our opinions.  But we all can’t be experts at everything.  There are infectious disease scientists who have studied the spread of disease and pandemics for their entire working lives.  They would disagree with you.  You may feel that science is just another superstition to make us feel that we are in control.  Having studied the scientific method and the history of science, I can’t agree.

“it’s not just a matter of the baseless fears of the elderly that we’re concerned with.”

Based on the Death Rate of those infected with Covid 19  in Indiana, from the In.gov

website, it is not “baseless fears.”

In Indiana, and I’m assumng the numbers are pretty close to representative of the Nation as a whole, people of ages 60 and up make up 22.9% of those tested positive for Covid 19.

But those of age 60 and up make up 92.2 % of the Deaths !

So if you think that’s a baseless fear then you can go **** yourself !

Larry S

lol,  Larry!.  I can’t believe you just said that.  Someone will probably hit the report button, but I hope they don’t.

Oops, Larry, I didn’t communicate well. I wrote that but was intending to be sarcastic with that comment. I’m 66, so I fall into the elderly category.

I’ll say straight out what I meant: it’s not baseless fears that are driving the concerns over Covid for anyone, and especially not the elderly. It’s real infections that are skyrocketing again right now. Ryan didn’t mean that either! I was responding sarcastically to a generalized group out there in the world who think Covid is at most a nuisance–not even people here necessarily.

I’m with you 1000%! I won’t report you and don’t mind at all that you told me to, well, you know.

So if you think that’s a baseless fear then you can go **** yourself !

I wish we could have a forum comment hall of fame. I’d definitely nominate this comment.

I second the nomination. ;-)

I’m proud I created the confusion that inspired that comment…I think…

hmmm…maybe I really am elderly…

Larry really put the swearing into Swearingen…

Just so I get this. Profanity is not only ok but lauded if the position of the poster is approved. The children will be ok then. We’ll explain that sometimes profanity is the most efficient way to may a point. I agree, BTW but it is further proof that moderating follows ideology.

(Note from RJ: I just learned that the profanity filter on the site was disabled recently because it’s interfering with some other functionality – apologies for the oversight and confusion, I was under the assumption that the above would have been auto-edited by the filter.)

Well I did not read the sarcasm in the previous text but I can tell you that the

reply I made was a heartfelt reply.   {:>)

If you think that was profanity please keep in mind that I was in the US Navy from

1963- 67  during the Cuban Missle Crisis through the early Vietnam years (two tours).

So I acquired that ability honestly. Also the last 4 years and especially the last two weeks have been especially trying on my ability to stay civil.

Larry S

Guys,

Having “stepped off the trail” time and time agin I guess that day I’d just had it with me being the nice hiker and others just cruising down blissfully down the trail.

I guess what got me going that day was that I could tell this guy, from his speed, had absolutely no intention of giving even a bit of social distance. his speed said the trail was his.

“Be the change you want to see”?? I’ve BEEN that change so many, many times and once in a while I’d like to see others “be that change”. jus’ sayin’…

So who was wearing a mask? You really kinda owe us that info because so much of this thread devolved into that aspect that not telling us is….wrong.

Eric – Maybe that was exactly what the runner was thinking … he was tired of being the change and just wanted you to take the role for a moment?  My point is, you and him may not be that different.  When you begin to consider that prospect, there might not be so much grumpiness next time.

This is all hard, endless work.  I appreciate you opening the thread to allow me to ruminate over it, as well as see others’ perspective on the issue.  I don’t find your encounter to be so much about hiking or Covid or trail-jerks.  It’s about day-to-day life.