Good Lightweight Sleeping bags

Grant,

You are probably going to get recommendations from people to buy a quilt. They are lighter, however as we discussed in the UL tent thread, there are some skills involved and they are not for everyone.

When it comes to sleeping bags, many here consider Western Mountaineering to be the “Gold Standard.” Also, Western Mountaineering bags are considered very accurate in temperature ratings, although actual temperature comfort varies between people. A 20F Western Mountaineering Ultralight runs about $500, with 16 ounces of 850 fill power down and a total weight of 1 lb 13 oz for a 6’0″ length.

I am not saying you need a WM bag. Western Mountaineering has pretty comprehensive specifications for each of their bags, and you might want to compare your list to the spec’s of similarly rated bags on the WM website.

I have no experience with any of those bags you are looking at.

For most people, a quality sleeping bag is their most expensive backpacking gear investment. So you want to do a lot of research to make sure you get the right bag the first time.

Go with mountain hardwear. North Face does not make quality gear.

Of the ones you linked, I’d also go with one of the MHW bags (determined by actual low temps expected) if you can get a good discount on it.

If/when you do get into quilts, there are several cottage manufacturers that make really good ones at reasonable prices. I’m partial to Enlightened Equipment (have 3 of ’em!) but others are equally happy with some of the other quilt suppliers.

EE has a fairly new ‘transitional’ product called Convert that can be used as either quilt or sleeping bag. I’ve seen no reviews or testimonials on this, but then I haven’t looked at all. Some googling might turn up some early impressions of it.

The MH Spark 28 looks really nice if the 59″ shoulder girth is big enough for you. The MH Speed 32 is marked way down at Sierra Trading Post. That’s more along the SUL thinking with its incredibly lightweight shell (10d inner & 7d outer). I hear a bad things about the zippers though, and the Speed 32’s are even more slim cut than the Spark 28 with a 55″ shoulder girth, so they’re basically for skinny people.

There are many considerations for a bag. There are features that make it comfortable in cool weather (20F is around the best all around bag.) It does not work well all year, however. In Summer, 20F is too warm. In winter, it is too cold to use it. pretty much concentrate on your most used times and get the bag that fits those conditions. Draft collar, hood, shell materials, etc all add weight, <2 pounds is a good goal.

WM does not make the lightest bags, many are lighter. They use some good shell material, though. And good down.

Quilts are generally around the same size for the same temp range. You will save weight by removing the down/shell under you, but a good pad (sometimes two) is needed. You remove the hood which saves weight, but you need a hat or balaclava. No draft collar or draft tube saves weight, but you might want some extra insulation around your shoulders. If you roll or thrash around at night, they leak cold air. But, they can reduce the raw weight of a bag by about half…even with the extras needed to make them work, often the pads and head cover are something you carry anyway, you just need to insure they have some insulating value. Overall, they save around 8oz.

No bag/quit is warm when it’s wet. Develop skills to keep your down items dry.

The best synthetics are around equivalent to 500-600fp down for temperature. They do not last as long, often matting in a couple years and by 3-5 years old they are usually much reduced in temp rating. They are heavier by about 50% or more. They do maintain loft better wet, but this is kind of an oxymoron since you should have skill enough to not let any bag get wet. No bag will keep you warm if it gets wet…synthetic or down. But they are 1/4-1/3 of the price. A good place to start if you are broke, they do let you get out.

I agree with Justin, be careful about North Face stuff. Some is good, others are just style and offer no benefit. Some are well made, other items are the same as a much cheaper knock-off.

Sewing needs to be good with a bag. Check seams carefully. No loose threads and anchors. A good zipper. Buying down and you start. Maintenance will let it last for 20 or more years. Distributed over that time, a good down bag is cheaper than synthetics, lighter to carry, packs smaller, and will keep you as warm as possible.. Dry, unstuffed or hung storage, special down wash soap, special washing machines, etc…lots to learn about maintenance. Good down requires maintenance. Welcome to the club!

Thanks for all the answers guys. All were very helpful.

Bob, I really like EE. They are also the most reasonably priced down quilts I have seen. Price would be a little more than the Spark 28 for me. BUT I would get a lighter, warmer (temp rating) quilt/bag. I have always wanted a TQ for my hammock setup anyways, so would kill two birds with one stone. I need the bag relatively soon though.

James, In regard to the sleeping pad with a quilt issue. I am looking at upgrading my thermarest trail scout to either the Vaude Ultralight or the NeoAir Xlite. (let me know if I need to open a new thread for this kind of question). I am partial to the Vaude. It would be half the cost of the thermarest. not as much loft, but packs smaller/weighs 2 oz more.

It’s appropriate to discuss pads with sleeping bags. There are two major points to consider. First is which one is more comfortable for you. Since you work in an outdoor store perhaps you can try them out there. Second, pads insulate you from the ground, they supplement your sleeping bag as an insulating system. So you need to know the coldest temps you will be sleeping in and then match the R-Value of your pad. You might find that neither will work or one or both will meet your expected conditions.

I would concur with Nick about WM bags.  One thing to keep in mind is that you can have overfill added to any WM bag for a minimal price, which in the case of a WM Summerlite, for example, will give you an ~25 degree bag at a weight of ~21 oz.  In combination with your insulating clothing layers and a well selected pad, this will give you a 3 season very lightweight sleep system.  You might also take a look at Feathered Friends up here in Seattle.  Their bags are generally considered to be very close competition to WM offerings, albeit a bit heavier and more durable.  Neither brand is cheap, but you are looking at one of the most critical components in your kit, and you get what you pay for.  It is not a place to cut corners, IMO.  And considering your store discounts, you should be able to buy a top of the line bag at a very reasonable price.

A few points to add:

• EE has some ready to ship quilts, although the selection seems a bit small
• There are a number of other quilt manufacturers (many are from the hammock community-check out hammockforums.net), including Zpacks, Feathered Friends, Katabatic Gear, Underground Quilts, Hammock Gear, Jacks ‘R Better, Warbonnet, Arrowhead. Surely, someone can get you a quilt within your timeframe (Zpacks has a 3 week lead time now on quilts).
• I’m disappointed that TNF bags don’t even list the fill weight. I would not spend several hundred dollars on a bag that didn’t list the fill weight.
• Be careful trusting temp ratings and know that fit also has an affect on temperature.
• Quilts are great, but many of us want something to be completely enclosed when the temps approach freezing/below. It’s just too hard for me to seal out drafts with an open quilt when it’s freezing because I’m a restless sleeper. The EE convert, Feathered Friends Flicker and Zpacks bags all zip up all the way, helping with that issue.

Nick, I am planning on camping at 20 degrees minimum. usually camping around low 40’s. the thermarest is rated R value of 3.2. I cannot find a true R value on the Vaude, but it seems to be rated to 0 Celsius. My co-worker has the thermarest, and I ordered the vaude to try out. Thanks for the advice.

Tom, I really want to drop 400+ on a bag, but just can’t. The top of the the line bags from my work are North face Kelty, thermarest, and Mountain Hardwear. Mountain Hardwear is a brand I buy frequently and they never let me down. Price would still be comparable to an EE quilt though. Thanks for the Advice.

Gator, I saw the Ready to Ship quilts, but really think I need a 20 degree quilt. Which they don’t have RTS. I’ll most likely end up waiting for an EE bag; I really like the zippered footbox and the option to even cinch the neck. Not to mention picking down fill/treatment and a bunch of colors. I do really like HammockGear and Warbonnet however. Thanks for the advice.

@ the original poster, on the decently priced down bags available from a retail store, i think you are limited to Mountain Hardwear and Marmot.  I own and have been very happy with the performance of the Marmot Helium and Hydrogen bags acquired in separate years by using my REI dividend combined with the annual 20% off coupon. As noted above in the thread the MH bags are a bit smaller in girth that the Marmot bags of similar temp rating.  The Western Mountaineering bags are also a bit slim and pricey IMO.  Many of the above comments recommend quilts which can also be a bit pricey.  Mountain Laurel Designs makes high quality synthetic quilts priced at $215

Thanks Bruce. I am pretty much narrowed down to a 20 degree EE revelation or the MH Phantom Spark 28 degree bag. $10+/- difference

When you get down below freezing most people want R-5 or R-6 in their pads. I don’t know what is good for below 0* F, I would rather stay home.

Some of us supplement the air mattresses with a foam pad, which also helps protect it if we pick a bad site. A NeoAir XTherm is rated at 5.7.

EE does have a 10 degree in the garage sale section. I use my 10 degree Zpacks to temps up to about 50 and just vent it.

Considering the lowest temp you expect, I sort of doubt the NeoAir Xlite will work. This has no insulation, simply a baffle inside. Yes, they are quite comfortable in warmer weather, but, edge bleeding of heat can be a problem with them, though, I have used them inside a bag in cold weather to avoid this problem. Much below 32F and the NeoAir starts getting too cold to work well. For these types of conditions I recommend a CCF pad.

The CCF pad does not bleed heat. But generally these are only around an R1.5 per 1/2 inch. A 3/4″ pad is right around R2.2. So, you will need at least a couple pads for 20F.  In warmer weather, a NeoAir will work fine.

Pads are pretty much required for temps <40F.  UL techniques of 3/4 pads and packs for insulation do not work well even at 40F. (Most nights are in the 40’s here in the NE, even in the summer half the time it will go into the 40’s.) The ground will really suck heat away from you.

Anyway, a good bag and pad will start adding weight, usually about 2-3 pounds. This is a reasonable weight for a UL backpacker.

As was said, a good sleeping bag is an expensive investment. They often last 20 or more years of 60 nights per year. And they maintain resale value well. It is usually assumed, though. People often talk about these as separate components because they can can each be varied independently.

Avoid buying a used bag. It is impossible to tell if they have been maintained properly. Detergent can ruin a good bag. You cannot tell how it was washed for an example.  I think I would recommend a Western Mountaineering bag. These are pretty much a standard and have an excellent resale value.

Eventually you may want two or three bags. One light one for late spring, summer and early fall. Later you can get a 0f or below for colder weather. Winter bags are recommended at -20F. Slim cuts are difficult to add clothing inside to extend the temp range. Some of the WM bags are quite wide and versitile in this regard, though you pay in extra weight. Personnaly, I use a 40F bag with my down jacket if it starts getting cold. In summer, I just open it into a quilt for the better venting. I have used it down to 25F with a set of long johns, two pair of socks and a down jacket…stuff I always carry anyway. I have seen snow in July, so cold weather snaps of a couple days are expected in the ADK’s.

Grant,

When it is cold, what type of shelter do you use?  I have found that a double wall tent which eliminates wind will make a huge difference in whether or not my quilt keeps me warm.

I can use a very light 40 degree quilt down to about 25 when combined with my extra layers, puffy, and a double wall tent.  If it’s cold and I’m at altitude, I would rather add weight with a puffy, since it will keep me warm at camp or when resting or stopping to melt snow, instead of adding weight in my sleeping bag/quilt which will most likely only be used sleeping and maybe while cooking in the morning before packing.

I agree that if you want one sleeping bag /quilt, 20 degree is a rating, but only with reputable manufacturers.   Others list 20 degree rating and have less loft then my 40 degree quilt.

Considering the warranty that EE has, if go for them.   If you’re not sure about quilts, go for their convert.

Peace

I’ve used a NeoAir All Season pad in combo with a 1/4″ evazote pad down to -3 *F or so, with no problem, and it was warm enough that i think it could go down at least a few degrees lower.  This was with a 0* EE Down quilt–the quilt set up wasn’t ideal, but it worked well enough.

Lately, for temps like that or lower (doubt i’ll see those kind of temps this winter though), i’m considering using a very lightweight sleeping bag in combo with a quilt and IR reflective VBL.  I’m partial to EE quilts. I found a very lightweight, decent quality (as far as sewing, materials, etc however it’s sewn through which normally isn’t good but its ok for this specific application), and rather inexpensive summer type Down bag on alexiexpress from China (it was around 60 dollars).

While bags have the lofted insulation compressed on the bottom (no longer lofted), i still think you get a little more warmth retention at these more extreme temps with a bag vs a quilt, even it’s mainly only limiting convention much more rather than conduction.  Hence, why you can get away with using a very lightweight, summer type bag in combo with a warmer/thicker quilt.

The most weight efficient system will be one that involves several pieces tailored to a narrower range of temps, but if you don’t have a lot of spending money, then mixing a couple different pieces while heavier, gets the job done and is ultimately more versatile at less cost.

“Go with Mountain Hardware…”

Hmmmmm. There are lightweight sleeping bags and there are GOOD lightweight sleeping bags.

Here’s my story.

I once got a MH Phantom 32 from REI, took it home and didn’t like the 1/2 length zipper OR the lack of loft. A week later I was in Boulder Colorado at Neptune Mountaineering and saw a Western Mountaineering Megalite, a 30 F. bag. It made my MH bag look sick. I got that WM bag and returned the MH bag (unused) to REI. I’ve had my Megalite for 5 years and love it. VERY high quality, like Feathered Friends as well.

So the brands I can get from work are as follows: Big agnes, Kelty, Vaude, Thermarest, North Face, Mountain Hardwear.

ENO and Thermarest both make a down top quilt ( Corus HD Quilt and Ignitor Top Quilt) that would be a great deal for me. they’re only rated 35. possibly use a thermal liner in colder weather?

Any Thoughts on the eno or thermarest?

Also, will be using the NeoAir Xtherm sleeping pad. R 5.7

ENO and Thermarest both make a down top quilt ( Corus HD Quilt and Ignitor Top Quilt) that would be a great deal for me. they’re only rated 35. possibly use a thermal liner in colder weather?

When it comes to quilts there are just a handful of companies that have extensive experience, and these are designed and built by people who actually use them — a lot. IMO, the quality quilts are manufactured mostly by cottage industry manufacturers. I have had good experience with EE and Nunatak, I still use both I bought many years ago. For that reason I would not go with the two you mentioned — but I have no experience with either. The better reason I would not go with either is because they do not meet your requirement for a 20*F bag/quilt. You will end up trying to piece together a sleep system and will probably be unhappy with the result, and eventually end up with what you should have bought in the first place. It is sort of like campers… “buy your second camper the first time.”

Of the choices you presented, it sounds like Mountain Hardware might be your best choice. Again, I have no experience with them, so take a deep Google dive and research them. Becareful of casual reviews… you want to find out what people who backpack a lot and have used the bag over a long period of time think.

Lastly, quilts aren’t for everyone. Some people buy them and hate them. Many, many, quilt users have a sleeping bag in their gear closet for those 20 F trips. Think long and hard about buying a quilt, because once you commit, you have dropped a lot of money.

Thanks for the advice nick. I’ll do some review digging. I really like EE’s warranty. If I really hated the quilt I could return it and get something like a convert or even my money back. worst case throw it in gear swap.

For my upcoming trip I may see freezing temps a handful of evenings. so i could layer up if need be. and then invest in a nice 4 season bag/quilt, like WM, when I get the money

The biggest thing about a quilt is to make sure it is wide enough, and the straps work for you. In cold weather the cold can get inside if the fit and setup isn’t correct. Quilts do save weight, although you will probably need a good down hood to supplement it.

Good luck and happy sleep hunting.

• Put on a fleece and a puffy sweater
• get into the bag, zip it up, cinch the hood tight
• it shouldnt fit loosely and there should be no big dead air gaps
• if it fits buy it with yr discount
• if you leave up north get the 15-25F one … If it gets hot and thr bag has a full zip simply lay it open like a blanket
• if you want a bit more flexibility get a quilt …. Basically the girth is a bit more adjustable with the various straps if you het a wide

unless u spend $$$$ to get a top of the line quilt you really dont see too much in weight savings … Remember you need to add in a hood

for example my 20F revelation with a bit of overfill with a down beanie with stuff sack weights just under 900g measured … A top quality en-rated 15-20F sleeping bag weight around the same

The biggest benefit of a quilt is flexibility and for some comfort … But realistically a full zip bag is almost just as flexible, especially vs shaped quilts (not ones that fully open)

and while quilts can be more comfortable at higher temps … At lower temps you need to use a quilt “perfectly” to get the full rating … This means bundled up like a mummy with every strap and buckle …. Also many folks may want a wide quilt to prevent drafts

i also feel that while a bag might be less weight efficient because of the bottom down, the enclosed shape is more THERMALLY efficient because theres no neck gap (or other gaps) for heat to escape

the biggest issue IMO with bags is getting one that fits … Plenty of folks get bags that dont fit and have tons of dead air space in the name of “comfort”

to put it simply if you get a MH or TNF 800 fill bag vs a quilt or WM bag is pretty irrelevant

as long as it fits and yr comfortable with sleeping bags it wont make a whit of difference as the weight isnt far off equivalent WM bags or cheaper EE quilts once you add in the doo hickies (wide and hood)

;)

Good comments on fit from Eric.

When I bought my WM Ultralite many years ago from A16 here in California, they had an area with mats on the floor that you could try out the bags. I spent a couple hours there. It was time well spent getting the perfect fit, as the bag was a substantial investment.