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Geraldine Largay


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Viewing 23 posts - 51 through 73 (of 73 total)
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  • #3405368
    Roger Caffin
    BPL Member

    @rcaffin

    Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe

    A 16 year old Boy Scout went missing in SW Tasmania at Mt Picton in the early ’60s. There was a huge search for him, involving the local equivalent of the National Guard. They found every wombat skeleton and every wallaby skeleton on the mountain, but no 16 yr old Boy Scout.

    Eventually the local Commander of the mil forces realised he didn’t even know what the Boy Scout looked like, and neither did nearly anyone else in the search. So he asked. When he was told, he pulled ALL the military out of the search.

    So what does a 16 year old Boy Scout look like? About 6′ 2″ tall and in and out of Remand School several times, and none of the others in the party knew what gear he had in pack.There was little gear in his pack when they checked afterwards.

    What happened to him? The best guess is that he left the scene right at the start, to start a new life under a new name and in a different State. No Parole Officers.

    People do strange things at times, including disappearing.

    Cheers

     

    #3405417
    Jerry Adams
    BPL Member

    @retiredjerry

    Locale: Oregon and Washington

    She left trail for bathroom break, and then forgot how to get back to trail.

    I think the main lesson to learn is to not just take off without constantly looking back where you came from, plotting your return.  Same for longer distances.  Keep track of landmarks like ridges and peaks and where you have to go to get back.

    It’s easy to just enthusiastically take off and not worry about getting back.  Everything looks different going the opposite direction.  When you get to a destination, it’s not obvious how to get back if you haven’t been looking back occasionally.

    A second lesson would be to not freak out if you get lost.  I’ve “gotten lost” in similar situations, but like you have to try one direction and keep track of where you’ve been, and then try the opposite direction if that doesn’t work.  Avoid walking in random direction, probably circles or whatever.

    And if you “get lost” and recover a few times, then you’ll start remembering to look backwards occasionally and you won’t freak out when it starts getting sketchy.

    #3405420
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Hi Bob, that USAF training sounds like it was pretty intense.  Re: your p.s.–never thought of it that way before, but interesting point/connection.

    #3405422
    Billy Ray
    Spectator

    @rosyfinch

    Locale: the mountains

    Even if I knew I made my best effort, I’d sure feel bad if I had been part of that SAR team that looked for her.

    billy

    #3405425
    Jerry Adams
    BPL Member

    @retiredjerry

    Locale: Oregon and Washington

    It is extremely difficult to find people that aren’t on a trail.

    Maybe that’s another lesson, stay on a trail.

     

    #3405466
    Ryan K
    BPL Member

    @ryan-keane

    Perhaps hikers with a bad sense of direction should be encouraged to poop/pee right next to the trail.  Actually it’s probably better for the environment for us all to do this, privacy be damned, to keep our human impact to a narrow corridor and decrease the chance of setting up our stealth campsites right next to a poorly dug cathole.

    #3405485
    Jerry Adams
    BPL Member

    @retiredjerry

    Locale: Oregon and Washington

    Yeah, when you pee or poop off the trail a ways for privacy, you should note where the trail is so you can get back.

    Not to be disrespectful to Largay.  Easy mistake.  I’ve done the same thing but then figured out where the trail was.

    Maybe someone else will hear this story and be more careful and avoid her mistake.

    #3405488
    Roger Caffin
    BPL Member

    @rcaffin

    Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe

    Australian terminology:
    ‘LOST’ means you have given up completely and sat down to die or be rescued.
    ‘Confused’ means I was holding the map upside down, or something like that.

    One very prominent Oz walker from long ago wrote a book: “Never Truly Lost”.

    Cheers

    #3407082
    Gerry B.
    BPL Member

    @taedawood

    Locale: Louisiana, USA

    “Deep Survival”, by Laurence Gonzalez, is an excellent book about survival and why some people do and some people don’t when lost or in emergency situations in the outdoors.  I highly recommend it.

    #3407120
    Bob Moulder
    BPL Member

    @bobmny10562

    Locale: Westchester County, NY

    Sounds good. I ordered this one on Amazon, having already ordered and read the one recommended by Ralph B, Finding your way without map or compass by Harold Gatty. Very useful, and I learned a few things. Interesting how Gatty slays the “ESP Unicorn” at every turn… Even back in the ’40s and ’50s this was an issue. Although, come to think of it, I remember seeing ‘documentaries’ about how the military was doing studies with the whole ‘remote viewing’ um, notion (not using the word I really want to)… which rates right up there with Uri Geller bending the spoons. :^)

    Thing is, I think those of us who are interested in and study such stuff aren’t the ones who are most in need of it. I mean, would somebody have to tell you to learn how to build a fire and have a rudimentary understanding of map/compass before heading out on a 2,200-mile walk?

     

     

    #3407130
    Jerry Adams
    BPL Member

    @retiredjerry

    Locale: Oregon and Washington

    Deep Survival:

    “<i>Deep Survival</i> was the first scientific book on survival. It set the bar and started the trend that spawned a spate of imitations. Since its publication, this best-seller has been embraced by everyone from the head of training for the Navy SEALs to the Sloan School of Management at MIT. Its appeal has been so broad and deep because the principles in <i>Deep Survival</i> apply to any challenge that life poses, from coping with a financial crisis to battling a life threatening illness or dealing with addiction and recovery. And psychologists, oncologists, business executives, and clergy have brought the principles of <i>Deep Survival</i> to their clients to help them face adversity, to manage risk, and to enhance decision making in every form. Read the original. You won’t be disappointed.”

    This site and people in general are more into gear, but staying calm and using your head are important.

    #3407230
    Roger Caffin
    BPL Member

    @rcaffin

    Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe

    Rule of thumb here in Oz for emergencies:

    Sit down, get the stove out, and have a cuppa.

    Cheers

     

    #3407253
    Ken Thompson
    BPL Member

    @here

    Locale: Right there

    Jerry, there is an italicize key above the text box I. HTML DIY style doesn’t cut it here anymore.

    #3407256
    Roger Caffin
    BPL Member

    @rcaffin

    Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe

    Yes, you can use the I button, or in text mode you can use anglebracket em anglebracket. Same thing.
    Why does this SW use em instead of I? I haven’t a clue, and I don’t agree with the SW designers’ choice.

    Cheers

    #3413517
    Bob Moulder
    BPL Member

    @bobmny10562

    Locale: Westchester County, NY

    “Deep Survival”, by Laurence Gonzalez, is an excellent book about survival and why some people do and some people don’t when lost or in emergency situations in the outdoors.  I highly recommend it.

    Just finished reading it. Also highly recommend.

    But the people who need it won’t read it, or will totally forget it all in a by-gawd, real-deal puckerfest emergency. I gathered from the book that those survival traits and personality characteristics are practically innate for some adults, springing from self-esteem and self-reliance developed at a very early age.

    #3413518
    Bob Moulder
    BPL Member

    @bobmny10562

    Locale: Westchester County, NY

    I have NO idea how that html stuff got in there. :^o

    And then I edit and it’s gone……… whatever……

    #3413535
    Roger Caffin
    BPL Member

    @rcaffin

    Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe

    A fascinating feature of the Forum software.
    Has happened to me too.
    Translation: an awful lot of so-called commercial web software has been written by incompetent amateurs. Proof of this statement can be found by trying to use the SW.

    Cheers

    #3417015
    Eric Blumensaadt
    BPL Member

    @danepacker

    Locale: Mojave Desert

    That’s sad story that could have been prevented if she had more orienteering experience or had a cell phone GPS app, which thankfully does not require cell coverage.

    I’m 73 and now carry a SPOT III beacon every time I go hiking. I’m in very good health and have a high level of fitness, not just for my age but for a 50 year old, according to my family doc.

    I got the SPOT III last year when I went solo hunting in Nevada’s northern Jarbige Wilderness, where I’m again lucky enough to have both a buck mule deer and cow elk tag this year. I’ll be backpacking in a little over a mile and make a base camp. Camping near water is the distance limiter here but daily I’ll “still hunt” on average over 5 miles. “Still hunting” is a stop-wait & watch-slowly move on hunting technique.

    I also carry a Garmin Colorado GPS and a topo map and Silva compass. Belt & suspenders ya know.

    With the SPOT my wife will know exactly where I am. She is instructed to call 911 if my SPOT beacon does not change location all day and i do not press the OK button indicating I’m in camp. i.e. This is a default procedure if I am too incapacitated to press the SOS button.

    My SPOT pre-programmed messages:

    1. HELP/ASSIST-> send AAA to trailhead to retrieve my car (It’s a VERY rough 1/4 mile into the trailhead and I have only a Prius v wagon and chains. Mud or snow may strand me.)
    2. CUSTOM MESSAGE-> got a deer or elk!
    3. OK-> camping for the night
    4. TRACKING-> shows my hunting route. For times when I’m on a “deer stand” for more than 5 minutes SPOT has an auto feature that sends one more locator signal and turns off until I begin moving again. Very nice feature.

    BTW, there is absolutely no cell service for many miles in every direction.

    Another year hunting in God’s Country. :o)

     

    #3417078
    Ken Thompson
    BPL Member

    @here

    Locale: Right there

    “had a cell phone GPS app, which thankfully does not require cell coverage.”

    False an app does not magically install a GPS chip in your phone. You would need cell coverage.

    #3417082
    Tipi Walter
    BPL Member

    @tipiwalter

    On my last backpacking trip in June 2016 I took out some reading material about Largay including news reports and forum discussions (copied at home to read in my tent and later burn).  ((Btw, do these threads have a Print Option??)

    After reading thru the stuff I sat in camp and wrote this little report (with my comments) in my trail journal—

    THE SAGA OF GERALDINE LARGAY
    ** 66 year old retired Air Force nurse from Tennessee.
    ** Disappeared on the AT in western Maine on July 23, 2013.
    ** Body not found until October 2015. Wow.
    ** Authorities think she went off trail for a bathroom break and couldn’t get back to the trail. Is this even possible? I mean, I leave my pack and go 10 feet off the trail with my pack still visible.

    ** Texted her husband several times to no avail.
    ** Last phone attempt was August 6, 2013.
    ** Last journal entry was August 18.
    ** Survived at least 26 days.
    ** Set up a final camp on a knoll (ironically on land owned by US Navy and used as a SERE training area).

    ** Dwindling food supply—clif bars, tuna fish, gatorade powder.
    ** She died 10 minute walk from a dirt trail that becomes a road.
    ** Maine Ranger Deb Palman said, “This is some of the worst country in Maine. It’s hard to understand how logistically difficult this area was on any given day, by the time a searcher would get close to where Largay was found, they’d have to turn around to make it back to their vehicles by nightfall.”

    ** What!!?? Can rescues never happen at night? Can a searcher not bring a pack and camp out for a week? Very odd.

    ** Apparently she was hiking the AT north as a modified slackpack due to a back injury requiring her husband to meet her along the way with supplies.
    ** Her last camp was “only” 2 miles from the AT but 2 miles off trail on a bushwack might as well be 50.
    ** Took medication for anxiety attacks.””

    Current opinion?  She was 2 miles from the AT.  These are bushwack miles.  Has anyone ever tried to bushwack for 2 miles in such topography?  It’s tough and befuddling.

    #3417084
    Bob Moulder
    BPL Member

    @bobmny10562

    Locale: Westchester County, NY

    Very few phones these days (an no smartphones) don’t have GPS chips (tricky double negative there, hmm).

    But if you’ve followed this particular saga and read between the lines, the real issue was most likely a medical one.

    I think Roger stated it best earlier… “Unsafe at any speed…” with all due respect for this poor lady.

    This was a very unusual case.

    #3417166
    Aimee M
    Spectator

    @treehugger5

    But the people who need it won’t read it, or will totally forget it all in a by-gawd, real-deal puckerfest emergency. I gathered from the book that those survival traits and personality characteristics are practically innate for some adults, springing from self-esteem and self-reliance developed at a very early age.

    This.  That book is excellent, I read it several years ago.  I agree that there is something definitely innate in terms of survival.  My personal opinion on this tragedy is that it likely was a perfect storm of several things: medical issues, lack of skill, compounded by fear/anxiety, and heavy terrain.  Very sad, indeed, for her family.

    In my SAR team, we almost exclusively use our GPSs for mapping search areas, to indicate what has been and what hasn’t.  We really don’t use them much for navigation, (although we do some) relying mostly instead on terrain nav and slight compass use (so forested here, compasses are not as useful as terrain features.)

    #3417199
    Tipi Walter
    BPL Member

    @tipiwalter

    Thanks to whoever brought up the Deep Survival book—DEEP SURVIVAL: Who Lives, Who Dies and Why: True Stories of Miraculous Endurance and Sudden Death, by Laurence Gonzales(W.W.Norton and Co 2003).

    I pulled a particularly brutal 15 day winter backpacking trip back in January 2010 and was lucky enough to bring this book out to read in my tent at night—very cold nights.  As I read I wrote up notes and wrote up a sort of review in my trail journal.  Here’s a link—

    http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=298053

    One paragraph had real relevance as I sat in my frozen tent at 5,300 feet in zero degrees:

    “It’s easy to imagine that wilderness survival would involve equipment, training, and experience. It turns out that, at the moment of truth, those might be good things to have but they aren’t decisive. Those of us who go into the wilderness or seek our thrills in contact with the forces of nature soon learn, in fact, that experience, training, and modern equipment can betray you. The maddening thing for someone with a Western scientific turn of mind is that it’s not what’s in your pack that separates the quick from the dead. It’s not even what’s in your mind. Corny as it sounds, it’s what’s in your heart.” GONZALES

    “All elite performers train hard, and when you follow in their path, you’d better train hard, too, or be exceptionally alert. That’s the main difficulty with neophytes who go into the wilderness: We face the same challenges the experts face. Nature doesn’t adjust to our level of skill.” GONZALES

    “Some high-angle rescue workers call body bags “long-term bivvy sacks.” GONZALES

    “They actually discussed the weather and “made a group decision to press on for the top instead of rappelling off.” Even if they had succeeded, they did not consider how rapidly hypothermia could overtake them in their cotton clothing in a cold rain. They were locked in a game of speed chess with Mother Nature. And she unleashed a series of stunning moves.” GONZALES and all quotes from the book DEEP SURVIVAL.

    QUOTES FROM MY TRAIL JOURNAL—Deep cold becomes deep survival. In his book, Gonzales starts Chapter 4 with an interesting description of the Illinois River in Oregon and its class III-IV and V rapids which attracts paddlers. A paddler named Gary Hough “knew that with his level of skill he could run the Illinois at flows between 900 and 3,000 cubic feet per second.” GONZALES.

    Anyway, it started raining and Gary pulled out to sit tight and watch. “The environment had changed, and he adapted.” GONZALES. He was smart to do so cuz “The river rose 15 feet and the flow eventually would reach 20,000 cubic feet per second.” GONZALES. Good God, 20,000 feet per second? Anybody who’s been by a raging river can understand and be shocked.
    Gary said, “There’s the roar of the full-throated river, but on top of that, as if it’s a layer you pick up and remove, there’s the hiss. That hiss basically says, ‘keep your distance.'” GONZALES. It was still run by 5 on a raft, 3 kayakers, and then 5 more kayakers, and of these, two died.

    “One woman . . . was carried 5 miles downstream before she was able to get out.” As Gonzales said, quoting John F. Kennedy, “There’s always some son of a bitch who never gets the word.” ALL QUOTES LAURENCE GONZALES.

    THE HISS
    The reason I quoted all this stuff is the thing about The Hiss and how it relates to many wilderness experiences. The Hiss is that borderline between a regular day in the woods and a time “when you best keep your distance.” There’s the engorged river Hiss, the winter cold Hiss, the ridgetop extreme wind Hiss, the high electricity lightning Hiss and of course, the rattlesnake Hiss. I’ve experienced all of the above hisses and can tell you there certainly is a line where things go from serious to very serious.

    THE CONCLUSION TO THE “DEEP SURVIVAL” BOOK by Laurence Gonzales
    Here’s a brief synopsis and summary checklist-outline I compiled after reading the book:
    ** Avoid impulsive behavior, don’t hurry. Remember my Go Slow policy?
    ** Know your stuff and know the system you’re entering.
    ** Commune with the dead: “Read the accident reports in your chosen field of recreation.” “The mistakes other people have made.” GONZALES

    ** Be humble: “Those who gain experience while retaining firm hold on a beginner’s state of mind become long-term survivors.” GONZALES

    ** When in doubt, bail out.

    Finally the book ends with this sobering quote: “we can live a life of bored caution and die of cancer.” GONZALES. So do it all first!

     

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