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Everclear not burning clean


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Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 31 total)
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  • #3709394
    JVD
    BPL Member

    @jdavis

    Locale: Front Range

    Everclear in my alky stove burns with a tall yellow flame. Any ideas why and what to do about it?

    Stove is a ThermoJet Microlite that I’ve used happily and successfully for years. Two years ago, I decided to switch from yellow Heet to Everclear, but I didn’t use Everclear until last week (relying on no-cook meals and others’ stoves). It was stored in a tightly-capped nalgene bottle for 2 years.

    Now, after I light it I only see a yellow flame about 3-4 inches high and none of the tight small blue flames coming out of the holes in the MicroLite. I don’t see any changes in the stove itself, and the internet tells me Everclear doesn’t degrade.

    Any suggestions?

    [Edited for clarity.]

    #3709422
    David Thomas
    BPL Member

    @davidinkenai

    Locale: North Woods. Far North.

    EverClear 190 or 151?  It’s limited to different proofs in different states.

    #3709446
    JVD
    BPL Member

    @jdavis

    Locale: Front Range

    190 Proof. I’m in Colorado.

    #3709457
    Ben C
    BPL Member

    @alexdrewreed

    Locale: Kentucky

    I don’t think it burns as well as denatured alcohol, so I rarely use it anymore, other than for a backcountry cocktail. I have heard some claim that adding a few drops of water to your stove will help.

    #3709490
    JVD
    BPL Member

    @jdavis

    Locale: Front Range

    Ben C: “I don’t think it burns as well as denatured alcohol.”

    After reading some of the old BPL articles and posts, I think I’ll avoid denatured alcohol for the same health and safety concerns as Heet.

    #3709502
    Kevin Babione
    BPL Member

    @kbabione

    Locale: Pennsylvania

    I switched to Everclear 190 for the same reasons.  I think I’ve only used my Starlyte stove since I made the switch so I don’t have a comparison point to “pre-Everclear”.  Do you have another alky stove that you can try with the Everclear at home?  I wonder if it was the jets.

    #3709503
    JVD
    BPL Member

    @jdavis

    Locale: Front Range

    Kevin, no this is my only alky stove. I wondered if the jets got clogged, but I couldn’t figure out why now. It worked fine with Heet and the problem started when I switched fuels. So, your stove does fine with Everclear 190?

    #3709504
    Bruce Tolley
    BPL Member

    @btolley

    Locale: San Francisco Bay Area

    “It was stored in a tightly-capped nalgene bottle for 2 years.”

    Could the alcohol be interacting with the plastic of the nalgene and thus degrading?

    #3709520
    Chris R
    BPL Member

    @bothwell-voyageur

    Likely something to do with the higher boiling point of the Everclear compared to the HEET

    #3709525
    Roger Caffin
    BPL Member

    @rcaffin

    Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe

    Could the alcohol be interacting with the plastic of the nalgene
    Chemically extremely unlikely.

    But what American companies are permitted to put into alcohol is rather distressing: there are no limits that i know of.

    Cheers

    #3709542
    Daniel Oxnard
    Spectator

    @danieloxnard

    Locale: Appalachia

    @rcaffin

    I’d bet on your answer.

    “But what American companies are permitted to put into alcohol is rather distressing: there are no limits that i know of”

     

    All denatured alcohol means in the States, is that it is denatured. Content depends on brand, and is a blend of a wide variety of alcohols, including methanol (Heet).

    This from the Jasco Denatured Alcohol SAFETY DATA SHEET, marketed as a “clean” burning fuel with 95% renewable sources.

    Ethyl alcohol = 42.5 -46.5 %
    Methanol =  52.5 -55.0 %

    #3709547
    Roger Caffin
    BPL Member

    @rcaffin

    Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe

    I have also seen acids and ammonia and other chemicals listed. To be sure, you would not want to drink the stuff (which is what ATF is trying to prevent), but some of the by-products when you burn the stuff can be very toxic.

    The methyl and ethyl alcohols in the Jasco stuff are OK, but what else is there? Does the MSDS say?

    Cheers

    #3709563
    Chris R
    BPL Member

    @bothwell-voyageur

    But the problem is with the Everclear, not a no name brand of denatured alcohol. Propanol (isopropyl alcohol) causes similar problems when burned in stoves that run fine on ethanol. If your stove is optimized to run on methanol based fuel switching to an alcohol with an additional carbon atom in the chain is likely to cause a similar problem

    #3709566
    JVD
    BPL Member

    @jdavis

    Locale: Front Range

    Chris R,

    You got me interested in the question of recommended fuel for this stove. I found this on the ThermoJet website: “The ThermoJet MicroLite can use a variety of alcohol fuels: denatured alcohol, methanol based gas line antifreeze, grain alcohol, 91% isopropyl (rubbing alcohol), and even 151 proof rum.”  So, Everclear/grain alcohol should work. But as others suggested earlier, maybe 150 Everclear would work better (like 151 rum) than 190 Everclear.

    I do have some denatured alcohol with my painting supplies. While I won’t use it as fuel on a trip, I will do a test with it. Maybe I can isolate whether it is the fuel or the stove that is causing the problem. I’ll report my results as soon as I can get to it.

    Thanks all.

    #3709589
    Chris R
    BPL Member

    @bothwell-voyageur

    Another issue may be temperature. If the stove is set on a cold surface it can affect performance. I think this is more of a problem with stoves that don’t have some form of felt or other wicking material but enough that I’ve seen suggestions to use something to insulate the base of the stove from the ground.

    #3709887
    JVD
    BPL Member

    @jdavis

    Locale: Front Range

    Chris R, I doubt temperature was the problem. I’ve used this stove (with Heet) in a wider range of temps. I’ve never used more than a few layers of tin foil. On this last trip, I used the stove in temps from mid-30s to mid-60s and observed the same result throughout.

    I wrote ThermoJet with this question. I’ll let you know if they respond and when I get a chance to test another fuel.

    #3710101
    Jon Fong / Flat Cat Gear
    BPL Member

    @jonfong

    Locale: FLAT CAT GEAR

    Old problem, old solution.  High percentages of ethanol can cause soot.  Evernew 151 burns fine, 190 can create soot.  The solution? Water down your 190 proof.  Reduce it to about 175 proof and it should be fine.  You may need to tweak the ratio for your stove.  My 2 cents.

    #3710117
    Garett A
    Spectator

    @g

    I’m still reading all the great replies so I apologise if this info was already covered but I like this explaination of alcohol combustion.

    YouTube video

    #3710119
    Garett A
    Spectator

    @g

    Regarding purity i learned from this…

    YouTube video

     

    #3710135
    James Marco
    BPL Member

    @jamesdmarco

    Locale: Finger Lakes

    Actually, this was a common problem years ago. Contact Hikin’ Jim. I believe he had a solution. U used a standard penny stove with no problems back when…

    #3710149
    Jon Fong / Flat Cat Gear
    BPL Member

    @jonfong

    Locale: FLAT CAT GEAR

    eh, not quite.  Combustion is dependent on the stove design as well as the pot/mug/stove interface.  In the last 2 cases (ethanol / isopropyl), demonstrate that the fuels are running to rich for an incomplete combustion.  A properly designed cooking system will not generate soot.  My 2 cents.

    #3710168
    Ben C
    BPL Member

    @alexdrewreed

    Locale: Kentucky

    Did you try adding a little water?

    #3710173
    JVD
    BPL Member

    @jdavis

    Locale: Front Range

    OK! I got an answer. Adding a little water to my 190 Everclear works fine as does denatured alcohol. It’s just using straight 190 Everclear that is the problem.


    @jonfong
    . “A properly designed cooking system will not generate soot.” I would say the problem is not with the stove design per se. Or maybe the “cooking system” includes the right fuel as well as stove and stove-pot interface. I was not using the fuel the stove was designed for. With the right fuel, it works properly.

    I’m back to being happy with my alky stove now. Thanks all.

    #3710182
    Jon Fong / Flat Cat Gear
    BPL Member

    @jonfong

    Locale: FLAT CAT GEAR

    Keep in mind that not all denatured alcohol is the same.  I purchase some Crown DA that had 85% ethanol and the balance being basically methanol.  They have since changed the MSDS.  Klean Strip on the other hand has ethanol that can vary between 30% to 60%.

    My understanding is that in the UK, they are not allowed to add methanol to Denature Alcohol.   When in doubt, try to look up the MSDS.  My 2 cents.

    #3710203
    Ken White
    BPL Member

    @kenw

    I used get my denatured alcohol from Humco. Now links to another company. No methanol, but you will pay a price.

    https://shop.fagron.us/en-us/product/item_000085/alcohol-denatured-190-proof.aspx

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