Evaluation of North Face Futurelight

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Stephen

Interesting. Anything is possible in a howling gale. If you go Alpine, gales are always possible. And in cold weather, condensation on the inside of a jacket is very likely, just from your sweat and the cold air.

Mind you, despite all that, I have never had any rain penetration through stock silnylon fabric in my tent.

Never trust a salesman. Especially one who guarantees to keep you dry (without knowing the conditions)!
Cheers

[Stephen Seeber]

The tent performance is an example of where the conservation of energy assumption becomes important, as it will in an actual jacket to an unknown extent.  Here, some of the kinetic energy is dissipated in the elastic tent material.  This will happen to some extent on a jacket as well.  The number  in the posting shows that the failure mechanism is possible but does not refine all the variables.  You can only do so much in an hour.

However, I definitely agree with your final statement.

[Michael E]

So let’s take a look at some of the claims out there for Futurelight.

Revolutionary New Process

Nope. As Reimer’s Outdoor Magazine review points out, “It’s similar to, if not the same as, the process used to make Polartec’s NeoShell and Outdoor Research’s AscentShell—also air-permeable membranes.” OR claims a half decade lead in terms of their electrospun membrane as well as all the same attributes for it that TNF claims for their nanospun membrane.

Waterproof

Sure, but so is Ascentshell and Proflex if we take 10k HH as the standard.

Very Stretchy

Yup, but Ascentshell is stretchy and Proflex is very stretchy.

Breathability/MVTR

This is really where the biggest claim is so far with the 75k MVTR. By comparison Proflex is only 35+k and Ascentshell 30k. So, assuming they are all using the JIS L1099 standard Stephen mentioned, Futurelight more than doubles them in MVTR. But Stephen’s testing does not correspond with that and neither do some of the reviews. The reviews rarely make a direct comparison between Futurelight and Ascentshell or Neoshell, but when asked in the comments section to compare to Neoshell a recent reviewer states:

“In terms of breathability it felt like Neoshell can compete with FUTURELIGHT although I didn’t do any lab tests on this. But FUTURELIGHT is was better in keeping the moisture outside my jacket. That’s why I concluded “there is nothing comparable on the market”. When your watercolumn is not able to keep the moisture out on very wet days than breathability won’t help you either.”

https://wepowder.com/en/forum/topic/269270

This statement would seem to be confirmed by Stephen’s testing. Higher HH than Neoshell, but not any more breathable. What I would really like to see is a direct comparison between an Ascentshell jacket and similar Futurelight product. I have seen 15k HH, 30k MVTR mentioned in some reviews of the OR Interstellar and Realm jackets. I suspect that Futurelight is probably about on par with that. OR’s own statement on Ascentshell:

“Bottom line: AscentShell is best for people who want a stretchy, waterproof jacket that is extremely comfortable to wear during high-exertion activities, but it isn’t great for burly monsoon conditions or instances where you’re standing still in a downpour.”

https://www.outdoorresearch.com/blog/article/how-it-works-the-science-behind-breathable-waterproof-ascentshell-technology

So far, the reviews of Futurelight have all been very positive and I don’t doubt that it performs well. I just don’t see it as “revolutionary” compared to some of the other products that are already available.

[Matt Dirksen]

When I see the word “revolutionary”, red flags go up, always.

When it comes to the language of outdoor equipment marketing, there is absolutely nothing revolutionary about the spin, that’s for sure.

 

[Murali C]

Stephen – have you done any testing on the 1.2 osy DCF WPB material? The MVTR claim is >50K at ripstopbytheroll….thanks!

 

[Stephen Seeber]

I have not.  It sounds interesting though.  No DWR to maintain and claimed high MVTR.  That is a powerful combination.  Perhaps a competitor to Shakedry?  I wonder how stiff this fabric is and how well it ages?  Are you planning on making a garment or a tent with it?

[Murali C]

I was thinking of using it as the top material for a bivy….bottom is the usual non-breathable DCF bath tub floor…

[Christopher S]

Honestly I think they are all just licensing Neoshell – Polartec and a lot of these companies will license out their membrane tech and then they just rename it to something “proprietary” and revolutionary with a few specs tweaked to their liking.

So far by far my favorite is Polartec Powershield Pro – its the same membrane as Neoshell but tuned to have less HH and higher CFM. I have a heavy jacket and pants I use for resort skiing from Patagonia (discontinued) that passes more air than anything else I have tried. and 5000HH should be plenty for most waterproof jackets

And in response to Murali – I have made a Neoshell bivy – it works VERY well

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