Enlightened Equipment Enigma Quilt…20 or 10 degrees?

I have an EE Enigma Custom in 20 degrees along with the NeoAir XLT, so I can give you a fairly accurate assessment. What is the lowest temperature that you get down to on average?

Usually 40’s to low-50’s with the occasional dip onto the 30’s and maybe around freezing.

So here are the results of my one rat experiment at the lowest temperature I’ve taken my 20 down to:

1. Bag: EE Enigma Custom 20F; down: 950; regular length; wide width; 19.3 oz with the diaphanous 7D outside and inside fabric; no draft collar; purchased several years ago; closed footbox; no tears despite 100+ nights of hard use.

2. Temperature: 23F, -5C

3. Pad: Neoair X Lite (R value is around 4; this is the women’s version)

4. Clothes worn: synthetic beanie; merino wool thermals top and bottom; light down vest with hood; wool socks.

5. Body type: Male, 53, 175 lb, 6 ft, generally sleep cold.

Assessment: Loved it. I slept warm in the above scenario. I could push things several degrees lower if needed, especially by adding rain gear. If I could do it again, I would probably keep the closed footbox but instead of clips, take the slight weight penalty for a zipper for draftier conditions.

Hope this helps.

Thank you very much!

In my experience the 20 degree quilt will be plenty warm for the vast majority of your conditions, and you can always put some extra clothing on for the rare occasion.

There’s a couple of Facebook pages for the CT. I’d ask there.

‘My 20* EE is borderline. While I can pack extra clothes, making sure I  keep them dry, basically dedicated clothing to sleep in, wool weighs more than down. It’s better to have a warm enough quilt then to carry the extra necessary clothing. You can always vent.

‘Then if it rains in the evening, which it often does here, your rain gear will be damp.

Twenty degrees is a great all around quilt. If I bought one with the CT in mind, I’d get a warmer one.

I went back and forth on it since last night, but I agree with you Terran. It’s a small weight penalty going from a 20 to 10 degree quilt, and the weight spent packing an additional layer with the intent of using it for sleeping would most certainly be heavier than going with warmer quilt while still weighing less than a comparable sleeping bag.

Regarding the CT FB page, I am never on FB and try to avoid going on FB for any reason. Similar reasons I avoid Reddit, etc. This site, although you have to pay, but that’s probably why) seems to be one of the most helpful while still being civil.

You’ll find the CT thru hiker class of 2023 group as well as the CT section hikers group on Facebook very friendly, very factual, and very helpful, especially for snow and water conditions. A few local experts.  Better than Far Out (Guthook). I know I hate Facebook. Too many egos, for localized information, you can’t beat it.
I think living in northern Cal, you’ll appreciate the warmer quilt.

Thanks! I appreciate it!

Just to be clear, I was not suggesting that you pack extra clothing for sleeping. I have spent several hundred nights in the Colorado mountains using a 20 degree EE quilt (which is by now pretty old and worn), and I can count on one hand the number of times I was cold. And I am not a warm sleeper.

I guess it really depends on your philosophy. My approach to backpacking is to bring gear that will work most of the time, and then I adapt to rare occasions. You already have extra clothing, including a puffy, that you could wear in that unlikely situation. If you find it necessary to sleep in completely separate clothing, then I guess it’s a different calculation, but I don’t bother with that.

For better or for worse, cold days and nights are getting less common. 20 years ago, I used to wake up to frozen water pretty often, but it is becoming rare.

I was following what you were saying for sure. I pack pretty basic. Thin base layer (silk weight top and bottom), some sort of mid-weight top (loving my 5.11 Stratos 1/4 zip these days), puffy down jacket and a rain jacket. Also have an old Patagonia Dragonfly jacket that is great for blocking wind that weighs nearly nothing and packs down to nothing. I’ve never packed any extra clothing specific for sleeping, ie; down booties, any sort of extra garment that would be specific for wearing while sleeping, etc. Only item out of what I listed that I would wear the least often would be the silk weight wool long underwear bottoms, but those are nice to have for a very minimal amount of weight penalty.

Used to do a lot of alpine, ice and trad climbing, hiking and backpacking in Colorado, but that was MANY years ago when I was in my 20’s (47 now). Probably went lighter and took more risks than I should have back then. Suffered a bit sometimes when it got cold as well.  Also used a frameless pack, folded Z-Rest as the back panel, no waist belt, etc. and just sucked it up when it got heavier. These days, and being a bit older I still want to stay as light as possible but also be a little more comfortable, so that’s the rub now…justifying carrying a “heavier” pack like a Kakwa 40 (instead of a 16oz. frameless pack) and taking a heavier sleeping pad (used to carry 6 sections of a Z-rest, now use a NeoAir) and a heavier shelter (used to carry an old Integral Designs 16oz. tarp, just ordered a Durston X-Mid 2 Pro).

I’m leaning toward going with the 10 degree quilt, which would still be lighter than many 20 degree sleeping bags, and also a little less expensive.

Bear size in mind: the 20 is not small when packed, even with 950. The 10 will be bigger, and you have to carry the size every time. I don’t carry sleep clothes, but in the off chance things dipped much lower than 23F (-5 C), I would wear everything that I was already carrying (thermals top and bottom, synthetic pant and shirt, rain pants and jacket, beanie, gaiter, down jacket with hood, fleece if I were carrying it, and feet and legs in pack:).

Atif Khan – very good points for sure.

I’m only speaking for myself. I’ve had suggestions like buying a liner, wearing more clothes. More stuff.
When it gets down to around 30*, I feel I’m pushing it comfort wise.
I’m 67, I’ve been cold. I find I don’t enjoy it as much anymore.
It’s really a toss up. At least for me.

I used a 15 degree bag last year on the CT, but a twenty would have worked.

EE changed their rating system a little while back and uptaded the temperature ratings to be not as optimistic, so they’re more accurate now.

There were times last year when it rained all day and I went to bed cold and damp, in these situations I was glad to have the 15 degree bag.

The weight difference is minimal compared to the warmth, you can’t get that increase in warmth at anything close to those few ounces more of down. And while it is slightly bulkier when packed, it still takes up less space than anything else you would use to stay warm.

A good nights sleep can make the next day far less of a challenge and keep your spirits high.

EE changed their rating system a little while back and uptaded the temperature ratings to be not as optimistic, so they’re more accurate now.

There were times last year when it rained all day and I went to bed cold and damp, in these situations I was glad to have the 15 degree bag.

The weight difference is minimal compared to the warmth, you can’t get that increase in warmth at anything close to those few ounces more of down. And while it is slightly bulkier when packed, it still takes up less space than anything else you would use to stay warm.

A good nights sleep can make the next day far less of a challenge and keep your spirits high.

Wise words for sure.

EE states that its temperature ratings are limit rather than comfort ratings. Never used an EE down quilt, but most people tend to say the temperature ratings are on the optimistic end of the spectrum. I had not heard that they made any changes recently, other than from years ago when they started adding additional down.

I had an EE quilt from late 2019, when EE started adding more fill.  Granted, I’m female and the consensus seems to be that most males sleep warmer.  My 10 degree EE Enigma was comfortable down to about 25 degrees.  Below that, I needed to sleep in my down jacket, fleece, etc.  Always used the quilt with  an R value 4.7 sleeping pad and also had an EE Hoodlum to cover my head.

These conversations can be difficult because people are trying to help by giving opinions, but everyone has different tolerance for heat/cold, and some people don’t have experience with the specific quilt or the typical temperatures (in recent years) in the specific locations you’ll be visiting.

The bottom line from my perspective is that you’re fine either way and the choice really will have little impact on your experience. On the one hand you save a few ounces and some space and sleep in your puffy a few times, on the other hand you carry a little bit of extra weight and bulk, sleep comfortably in your base layer and vent more often. The decision won’t affect your trip very much IMO. Sometimes the hardest decisions are the ones where both options are good, and the differences are small.

These conversations can be difficult because people are trying to help by giving opinions, but everyone has different tolerance for heat/cold, and some people don’t have experience with the specific quilt or the typical temperatures (in recent years) in the specific locations you’ll be visiting.

The bottom line from my perspective is that you’re fine either way and the choice really will have little impact on your experience. On the one hand you save a few ounces and some space and sleep in your puffy a few times, on the other hand you carry a little bit of extra weight and bulk, sleep in your base layer and vent more often. The decision won’t affect your trip very much IMO. Sometimes the hardest decisions are the ones where both options are good, and the differences are small.

Isn’t this the case with most topics on sites like this?! I’m sure we’re all guilty of over-analyzing  things like this and go down some ridiculous rabbit holes and lose sight of the big picture, when in the end, you’re right by saying it probably won’t make THAT much of a difference.

But there is something to be said for counting an ounce or two here and there because it can eventually lead to a somewhat significant weight savings, etc. I’ve easily shave 1.5 lbs but counting ounces. It’s easy to do to a point, and then after refining everything you REALLY have to start making some serious decisions to take it one step further and at that point the gains are usually a bit of diminishing returns. Kind of like adding horsepower to a car or motorcycle. There are some pretty simple and inexpensive things you can do to get a pretty decent boost in horsepower, but to go even further the amount of money you have to spend for only a few more horsepower starts to get ridiculous.

I also think about the fact that I have to order everything in long lengths which also adds weight (and bulk), and at 6’2″ tall and 200+lbs and fit carrying a few extra ounces will probably have less of an affect on me than it would on someone 6 inches shorter and 30-40+lbs lighter.

I forgot to mention, I’m 6’3″ and about 180 lbs with a long-wide 15 degree Katabatic Flex, the weight is around 27 oz. The 22 degree in the same model was only a couple of ounces less. The Katabatic bags typically weigh more for the same temperature rating compared to an EE because Katabatic rates them rather conservatively.

As mention both would probably work. I didn’t bring a puffy for warmth, just a sun shirt and Senchi with a Visp rain jacket, plus waterproof gloves and wind pants. It rained almost every day, sometimes all day. In cold damp weather I typically choose a warmer bag. I’d take the same bag again.

I forgot to mention, I’m 6’3″ and about 180 lbs with a long-wide 15 degree Katabatic Flex, the weight is around 27 oz. The 22 degree in the same model was only a couple of ounces less. The Katabatic bags typically weigh more for the same temperature rating compared to an EE because Katabatic rates them rather conservatively.

As mention both would probably work. I didn’t bring a puffy for warmth, just a sun shirt and Senchi with a Visp rain jacket, plus waterproof gloves and wind pants. It rained almost every day, sometimes all day. In cold damp weather I typically choose a warmer bag. I’d take the same bag again.

Thanks, George.

The fact that the cottage manufacturers are now making the bags/quilts in such small temperature-rating increments probably contributes to the over-analysis.  ;-)

Back in the day, I feel like it was more typically something like zero, 20, or 40 degrees, and the choice was easier. Now, you can not only choose from bags/quilts made for very small temperature increments, but some manufacturers will give you the option for overfilling, etc. It makes things very complicated.

I think EE was using the minimum amount of down to baffle size. It saved weight and brought the cost down. I find it tends to shift and leave bare spots. I just shake mine back and forth. I’ve thought a bit more down would be good, especially where I flop my arms. Maybe that’s what they’re calling 10*.