dual water treatment with aquamira first, then a filter

[ben .]

i’ve had giardia four times over the years. giardia loves me. so i now double treat my water. for the last few years i’ve been using a steripen ultra followed by aquamira tablets.

to save some weight and generally streamline the process, i was thinking of trying out the katadyn be free (along with just about everybody else, it seems).

as i’m conceiving it now, my be free system would ideally allow me to sometimes treat dirty water (in a 2L seeker bag) with aquamira *before* it hits the be free filter.

my question is, will this work?

is there a concern that the be free (or any filter) will “strip away” the aquamira before it has had time to work?

put another way, is chlorine something that a filter can even strip away?

for instance, lets say i add two aquamira tablets to 2L of water in the seeker. 10 minutes later, when the tablets are completely dissolved but before the 30+ minutes it takes to treat the water, i want to filter some water from the dirty bag into a clean container. will the water still have aquamira in it working its magic post-filter?

[Terry Sparks]

Cleaner hands could solve the problem, considering the four events in the past.

[Ben C]

It will work. I used a similar system previously  You could add the chems after the filter too

[ben .]

terry, i have not contracted anything since double filtering and not every case i had was while backpacking or hiking.

hey ben, glad to hear!

what do you mean “it will work” exactly? are you saying that chlorine is not something that can be “striped out” of water with a backpacking-style filter?

(and i do typically add aquamira after the uv or filter treatment, which removes the uncertainty. but i can envision occasions where i’ll want to begin treating what’s in the dirty water bottle with aquamira before i’ve filtered it.)

[Ben C]

The filter will not trap chemicals

[David Thomas]

A physical filter won’t remove much chlorine (or iodine).  So what you propose should be fine.  You’ll only get the full “belt & suspenders” of dual-treatment after the 20-30-40 minutes of contact time for the chlorine, depending on water temperature, but most of the beasties that die, die early.  So if you drink it after 10 minutes, you might get a 90% reduction from the chlorine instead of the 99+% it is rated for.

Activated carbon WILL remove almost all of the chlorine ions passing through it, so you shouldn’t chemically treat and then filter with a device that includes carbon, until the chlorine has had its required contact time (not what you are proposing).

A “belt & belt & suspender” approach would be to zap it twice with the SteriPen and then chemically treat.  I’ve used my SteriPen twice on the same water when I was more than average suspicious of it.

[Jerry Adams]

How did you treat the water the 4 times you got Giardia?

[ben .]

thanks for that, david! clear and concise as always.

jerry, giardia infections don’t come with a bill of provenance, but to the best of my understanding:

1st case: my first ‘real’ backpacking trip ever (20 years ago) in rocky mtn national park. we used iodine, maybe, and i doubt we waited long before drinking.

2nd: swimming in a popular lake (10 years ago).

3rd: backpacking in the sierra (three years ago).

4th: on a long dayhike in upstate new york last summer. i used the steripen (without aquamira) on a liter of water. the water was a light green/yellow from tannins. i only treated it once with the steripen, which in retrospect was a mistake given the slightly off color. (it tasted delicious for what it’s worth!) still, this experience — along with the weight and time savings associated with the be free (+ tablets) — made me curious about returning to filters.

[J-L]

Curious, why not filter and then Steripen? Seems like that would be most effective, but maybe heavier than filter + aquarmira.

Sawyer also has some new foam filters that might be worth considering.

[ben .]

hey john, yeah that would likely be the most powerful “belt and suspenders” approach available, but the combined weight of a filter + steripen and especially the treatment time per liter is off-putting. 40ish tablets of aquamira weighs 1 oz and can do its work in a bottle of water while i’m walking.

[Jerry Adams]

that makes sense that if you treated with steripen and got sick you should do something different

make sure that you’re meticulous about treating everything – don’t accidentally drip some untreated water into the treated water, don’t skimp on wait time,…

treating twice with Steripen makes sense.  They recommend that for murky water – the particles that make it murky also inhibit UV.  There’s no wait time.  You may need to carry extra batteries.

 

[Finnegan McBrisket]

I’ve never met someone who contracted giardia, let alone 4 times.

• How long did it take for the symptoms to kick in?
• How bad was it?
• How did you treat it?
• How long did the ordeal last?

To answer your original question, my opinion is, filtering the water through the BeFree filter first, then treat for anything that could have (but really should not have) made it through. Washing your hands often is good too.

If you contract giardia again, then everything is a scam and I trust nothing. ;P

[Jerry Adams]

don’t swallow water when swimming : )

[ben .]

joe, it was different every time. if left to its own devices, giardia will get very, very bad. since i’m sadly an old hand at this now, the last two times i’ve noticed something funny within a week, and gone to the specialist. over the years he has prescribed a couple different antibiotics, usually for a week. generally that does the trick, with a few weeks of residual bowel weirdness to follow. i think once i had to do a second round a month later.

in general, if you have had giardia once, you are more susceptible to it later. i’ve also contracted e. histolytica twice (mexico and guatemala). my gut loves all this stuff. hopefully yours doesn’t!

[Ken Larson]

Throughout this thread we have been assuming that the contamination is associated with water you did or did not decontaminate properly. NOLS has found the number one issue with students getting “sick” and picking up unwanted critters while in the backcountry, and after their adventures,  were associated with…….

Bathroom Hygiene:  Hand washing….. as it  is an important aspect of maintaining backcountry hygiene and sanitation.

[Rex Sanders]

For maximum effectiveness, I recommend filtering first, then adding Aquamira. The filter removes larger chunks (relatively speaking) that could partially neutralize the chemicals, or protect critters on the inside.  Even if your filter does contain activated charcoal, it won’t affect the Aquamira.

Reminder: Aquamira tablets need more than a few minutes, and the BeFree container isn’t opaque. Quoting from the instructions:

It is a violation of Federal law to use this product in a manner inconsistent with its labeling. To use: Remove one tablet from its foil packaging with a knife or scissors and quickly insert into 34 fl. oz. (1 liter) of contaminated water. Allow to react for 4 hours in an opaque container or in the dark, to generate a use solution of 4 ppm chloride dioxide. The treated water is now ready for drinking.

And wash your hands with soap and water before eating and after eliminating, wash your utensils and dishes with soap and water after every meal (boiling isn’t good enough), don’t eat directly from shared food pots or bags (e.g. gorp, chips), try not to swallow while swimming, avoid cruise ships, swimming pools, and child care centers, don’t put glowing meteorites in your mouth, etc. You’ve probably heard all that before.

Do what you need to do to feel comfortable going backpacking again. After four bouts with Giardia, I might decide to take up safer sports, like skydiving.

— Rex

[R]

+1 to filter first for reasons stated.

I notice your description of your four infections doesn’t include the word ‘filter’.

The water you carry but can’t drink yet is heavier than anything you might carry to treat it.

You can also double filter.

 

[Edward John M]

It has been a while but Giardia isn’t all that bad compared to real dysentery [ back country Nuigini] but I was always told to filter first then treat, and using a 2 or 3 stage mechanical filter works better than a single ultra fine stage. I’m a bit old school; I still use a Millbank bag with a pantyhose pre-filter and iodine or chlorine afterwards [ and a VitC tablet to kill the taste] and always to use the treated water for  teeth brushing and a small bottle of hand sanitiser goes a long way. Just using a decent pre-filter goes a long way to making an ultra fine filter work better by removing a lot of the particulate

I have been thinking of swapping over the panty hose in my other packs to the swimming pool filter cone in my summer pack

[Brad W]

I’m a newbee, but I can support what Rex wrote about….

filtering first before the chemicals is the way to go.

I used to work for a company that made and applied chemicals for water treatment on an industrial scale.  I wasn’t the biocide guy, but did learn a good bit about it in a basic level.

Think about it kinda like this way…. the biocide (hypochlorite bleach, clorine dioxide, etc..) is not an absolute treatment.  It is consumed as it works.  As it destroys the organics in the water it gets used up.

The level of biocide can be measured as an ORP…a measure of how much potential there is to kill the bad stuff.  If there is a lot of organic stuff in the water when you add the chemical, it can all get used up before everything is dead, leaving no “potential” to kill the rest of the stuff…..so for that kind of water you’ll need to add a whole lot more chemical to oxidize everything.

So

Filtering first removes a lot of the stuff which can consume a lot of the ORP….then the chemicals can attack any small fraction of the stuff that might get through the filter….(or that was in the container already)

and another factor to consider….. the ORP of bleach is reduced just by light and heat.  Over time, the killing potential of the stuff in the bottle can go to zero without treating anything.

[ben .]

hey all

thanks for the replies. my plan is absolutely to filter first when it makes sense. i didn’t want to get into the weeds here about how exactly i drink water while hiking, but it seems like that omission has lead to some confusion.

the way i typically drink water is to scoop up 2L at a time during the day because i don’t like to stop that often. i currently carry two 1L smart water bottles with a 2L evernew for dry camps. my thought with the be free is to carry a single 1L smart water bottle and the 2L seeker bag — i’ve never actually need 4 liters at a time. at a source, i’ll fill the seeker (with a coffee filter over the opening), then filter 1L into the smart water and add an aquamira tablet.

i’ll drink that first over the next couple hours (holding off for at least 30 minutes beforehand to let the AM start doing its thing). my thought is that the 1L of unfiltered water remaining in the seeker could use that time to be treated by its own aquamira tablet. it would likely be sitting there undisturbed (in its opaque bag…) for at least two hours before i’d start drinking from it through the be free. i just wasn’t sure whether filtering the water would remove the chlorine dioxide itself. it sounds like it won’t, or won’t very much. and hopefully the coffee filter will strain out a bunch of the larger chunks that might eat up the chlorine in the first place.

(i could simply bring two smart water bottles, but prefer the above concept, at least in theory.)

thanks again all.

[Elliott Wolin]

I’ve posted about this before, but an Aquamira rep pointed out that ClO2 drops followed by a coarse filter (Frontier Pro) allows you to drink water soon after treatment.  The ClO2 quickly kills all the small stuff (less than a minute, assuming it’s not hiding in clumps), and the filter removes all the large but hard to kill stuff.  With this method you can avoid the long ClO2 dwell times.

I used this for a while prior to purchasing a Steripen.  I’ve considered but never used a Frontier Pro after the Steripen.

[Howard Clapsaddle]

Ben, in case you get giardia again–and for those who may have it–let me share my experience.

Granted this happened some 20 years ago, but the same natural meds that got rid of my giardia then have knocked out other parasites over the years since then (mostly blastocystis hominis).

I had submitted stool samples to one of the top labs in the States, Great Smokies Diagnostic Labs (now called Genova Diagnostics I believe). Giardia and amoeba cysts were found. The recommendation of their team of doctors really surprised me. It was to forget pharmaceuticals! So, instead of antibiotics or Flagyl and the like, they recommended only natural treatments. Treatments involving the ingestion of oregano oil, grapefruit-seed extract, black walnut extract, and infusions of wormwood. These things really work!  BTW you don’t need to take them all, just 2 or 3 of them for a period of time.

[ben .]

in a months old thread on the befree, i found this paragraph from ryan jordan:

”A good combination of water treatment is using some type of chemical treatment in the dirty water side of the bottle in addition to filtering. I recommend this in particular for immune-compromised people”

lots of variations in opinion on this stuff!

[David Thomas]

If you are going to filter all at once, then it’s better to filter first THEN chemically treat so you remove more of the oxidizable stuff from the water.

But if you’re going to carry dirty water with you and suck it through a filter as you drink, then chemically treating it first lets you get more contact time before you ingest it.

[ben .]

hey david,

totally, that seems like the smartest way to look at this. but… is that what he’s saying? his phrasing almost looks like he’s saying it’s specifically better to add chemicals to the dirty side. (perhaps because the bleach in the water will inhibit biofilm growth on the filtet? that was part of the context of his post.)

 

anyway, just updating this thread with more nonsense :)

[Author]

Posts