Down Jacket Questions

I never count on water resistance for my down jacket, although in SoCal it’s usually not an issue. When I travel I would always have a shell at the ready if weather is expected. If you are going to wear it stand alone often then wind proof and water resistant fabrics matter. The caving usecase may call for more durability and in windy conditions a thicker/stiffer fabric helps. That said I solve those with the shell.

i think your math is useful although the cut and seams of a jacket will also affect where the down is positioned and therefore the warmth.  Since you are on BPL you probably care about weight. It totally matters to me when backpacking, since it will be in my pack 99% of the time when hiking. My Montbell anorak uses 900 FP down. Around town I’ve used a Uniqlo down jacket and last year got an REI 850 Magma jacket. It’s the warmest of the bunch. A bit too heavy for most of my backpacking trips, but an easy choice around town.

I got my wife a Peak Performance hoodie with 700 FP that is reportedly very warm and it’s being cleared out at REI right now. So many other great brands.  I really like the Rab gear I have and I hear their down pieces are great. I also have a lot of Patagonia gear that might not win a spec war but is comfy and seems to last forever.

interested to read other’s replies…

1. I think so. DIY is possible.
2. HFP is nice. Others disagree. Depends.
3. …..oz. • FP/ area = loft…If you had a blanket that was 1,000″ sq. with 3 oz. of 1,000 FP then 3•1,000/1,000= 3″ loft.  5 • 800/1,000= 4″ loft.
4. Pertex is nice. A certain guarantee of quality. Some major brands have their own which is fine.  Water repellency is nice in a drizzle. You’ll need it with down. It can be a little clammy with nothing underneath.
5. I’d go synthetic at those temperatures, the higher end anyway, especially wet and muddy. Most of the lighter down jackets are seen through. Not much weight savings. More durable if it rips.
6. I have a 10D Patagonia DAS hoodie. Everyday use. It has a lot of tape after 5 years or so. It works well with the Patagonia R1Air.
7. https://youtube.com/@meandmyjackets?si=U6wYiFj6FBsWcu1b

Slightly warmer, still UL, new (7oz/190g): Neve Barrington

Maybe warmer, synthetic, UL classic (10oz/270g): EE Torrid (Nicer-looking town version: Outcast)

Probably warmer, budget: REI Magma 850 (13oz,370g)

Probably noticeably warmer: Decathlon MT500 (16oz/430g)

Definitely much warmer: Rab Mythic Ultra (19oz/540g), Decathlon MT900 (22oz/630g), Simond Makalu (if you can get it in your country)

Patagonia and Montbell also have a variety of popular lightweight down jackets.

Katabatic Tarn fits your use case nicely. Has closer to ~3.5-4 oz of down depending on the size and uses a Pertex Quantum 20D fabric that should hold up well and be a bit better for daily life wear than some of the ultralight focused fabrics we are used to seeing. They also have the Tincup that would be considerably warmer with around 35% more down depending on size.

Montbell has some great offerings. I use the Alpine Parka as my deep winter jacket in Minnesota so maybe a bit warm for Kentucky, but they have a Alpine Light Parka that might fit the bill again with a heavier 20D fabric.

Check out Cumulus as well. The Incredilite Endurance and Regular Incredilite both seem like good options and deliver a lot for decent pricing. They have a 10D and 15D face fabric respectively but come from another well respected brand.

I’d advise against synthetic for daily wear. I have worn a number of synthetic jackets throughout the years and find that with daily commuting with a backpack and sitting in an office chair, the back of the jacket packs out prematurely and limits warmth. While its nice to be able to easily wash and the price is normally better, it just wasn’t worth it to me.

Montbell has several jackets that might work for you.

Thanks for the recommendations on the Cumulus & Katabatic. I need reminded of MontBell as well. I will look at those more closely.

FWIW, Patagonia’s “Hooded Down Sweater” is kind of the baseline that I’m looking at. I’ve tried it on in-store, and it fits well. I like that it has more loft than my present jacket. I won’t completely rule it out, but it seems like there may be some better options out there based on features – hydrophobic down, DWR outer fabric, etc. etc…

I like Patagonia if I can get it on sale. Not always the colors I’d pick, but if the price is right.

Coal Orange XL

I was just on …a popular retail site for cottage gear. I happened to see that they sell down hoods. Might be useful if you want to grab a hoodless jacket and/or wear while in a quilt or hoodless sleeping bag.

Also, going back up to one of the original questions, I thought I recalled some discussion here that 800fp was considered the breakpoint between loft and durability. Has that thinking shifted?

0F – 40F is a huge temp range. A standard 9oz Ghost Whisperer hoodie is good for static warmth down to the mid 30’s with layers underneath.

The Outdoor Vitals Nova Pro is only $250 and weighs around 15oz. It’s good down to mid-20’s with layers.

Given that you ultimately expect to reach the balmy conditions of a cave around 54F, I don’t think you need a super heavy parka. But I would recommend shooting for something around 18-22oz in total weight. Those options should give static warmth down to at least upper teens with layers. Rab Neutrino is a great choice for this range.

If you want to be able to endure static conditions near 0F or even 10F for long periods of time – you will need something closer to 30oz in weight with layers.

Montbell has great new options I see.

I highly recommend going for 20D fabric.

0F – 40F is a huge temp range. A standard 9oz Ghost Whisperer hoodie is good for static warmth down to the mid 30’s with layers underneath.

Yeah, I’d say that 0-40F range would be the “extremes.” It’s rare for us to see 0*F during daytime hours, but it happens if we get a polar vortex. But since that’s uncommon, I’m not considering a jacket for frequent, sustained use at those temps.

Of course, I’ll have layers under it. Some options being a 50/50 Merino/Nylon open-knit sweater. Patagonia R1 Polartech (polyester) fleece. Some other polyester fleece pullovers. And possibly, probably a cotton-long sleeve shirt under those.

Obviously, layers can come on or off depending on activity, which is to include the down jacket as well.

The jacket that I’m considering the strongest right now is spec’d at 110z. total weight, 4.9oz. of 900FP hydrophobic goose down. 10D Pertex Quantum. It has some other features that I think I’ll like as well, including partially-elastic cuffs. (I’m not a huge fan of full elastic cuffs, as they get annoying when wearing a watch.) I’m trying to refrain from posting makes/models right now, as I’m *trying* to avoid the inherent, emotional confirmation bias.

My goal for this thread was to try to mine the forum’s experience, and get some education. I’ve been pretty happy so far, and I’ll definitely take a look at some of the brands mentioned.

Sportiva may be a competitor.

I have a pretty good guess. I have the Ultra. I’m sure you’d be very pleased with it. The fabric is very nice. 900 FP is cushy.

The best price was on Backcountry dot com. At that price, it was worth joining their club.

The cons are the hood isn’t a great fit. When it’s zipped most of the way up, the collar sometimes rubs a little under my ears.

regarding DWR down, I made a vest with DWR down, then ran out and used untreated down for the rest.  I see no difference.  It would have been a better test if the right side was treated but the left wasn’t.

A lot of down makers have concluded treated down doesn’t make any difference and are just using untreated down.

I don’t think this makes any difference one way or the other.

I ended up purchasing a Rab Mythic Alpine jacket. It’s 11oz./313g total wight, uses 4.9oz of 900fp DWR treated down, and uses a 10d Pertex-Quantum face fabric. On paper, it checks a lot of boxes.

In practice, I like it at first try. It’s a slim fit, but has enough room to layer a short sleeve shirt, fleece mid-layer. I can also layer my WPB jacket over this as well, so I would call the fit perfect. The hood offers enough room for me to squeeze a small helmet under. Not really ideal for active climbing, but if sitting for a while, it would certainly work.

I’m concerned however with the fill. When holding it up, you can see a lot of light through the baffle stitching, indicating that those would be “cold spot.”

Is that actually much of a concern?

I’m not opposed to returning this for something different, although it looks like any “warmer” options will come with considerably more weight & bulk. (Not that I’m vehemently opposed to either. Just something to think about…)

It must be sewn through baffles.  That’s the problem with sewn through baffles.

I don’t know if anyone makes baffles with strips at the baffles.  That’s what they normally do with sleeping bags.

If you wear your WPB jacket over it it doesn’t me make as much difference – then there will be an air gap there, but the jacket prevents convection

Box baffles will eliminate those cold spots along the seams, but at the expense of weight.  Montbell Alpine might be a good option.

Better articulation.

Turn off the light. Wear that thing until it falls off. That’s a very nice jacket.

Turn off the light. Wear that thing until it falls off. That’s a very nice jacket.

You’re not wrong. it is a nice jacket, and I know that the mid-layer underneath, or the WPB layer overtop will still create an air-pocket that will trap some heat.

However, I don’t love seeing how those baffles at the rear are under-filled.  Not on a brand new jacket, and not when I’m trying to “upgrade” over my previous jacket.

The temptation is there to go with a warmer “parka” jacket that uses boxed-baffles, but that comes with a steep penalty of packed size, and weight – the bulk perhaps being more important to me than the weight.

I’m not sure what to think. I went round & round with WPB jackets and it became a saga. I really didn’t want to do that again with down jackets.

I see what you mean when you say some baffles seem under filled.  As you use it, the down loses some loft so it gets worse.

Maybe it’s just the light in that picture.  The underfilled spots are just where the light shines directly through so it appears underfilled more.

You don’t need a box baffle parka for what you’ve described. There’s a reason jackets made for winter minimize sewn-through chambers. Your jacket is the perfect example of too much sewing and too many chambers in an effort to control down movement, or more likely to create a “look.” I wouldn’t be happy with that Rab.

One of the absolute finest colder weather down puffies is the Montbell Alpine Light… I own two lol.

Here’s a great deal on them (notice how few chambers there are):

https://www.montbell.com/us/en/products/detail/2301251?fo=1&color=DKFO

I’m also looking for a down jacket after my 18 year old Bergans has lived it’s full life. Considering Rab Mythic G, but not sure about the 7d outer layer. Any thoughts?

I’m also looking for a down jacket after my 18 year old Bergans has lived it’s full life. Considering Rab Mythic G, but not sure about the 7d outer layer. Any thoughts?

I have the Montbell Plasma 1000 parka with 7d shell… it’s a specialty jacket that’s too fragile for everyday use imo. It’s a piece of kit for the backcountry when weight and space is at a premium.

https://www.montbell.com/us/en/products/detail/2301121?fo=1&color=BK

what temperatures are you using it in?

what temperatures are you using it in?

Assume you’re talking about the Montbell Plasma 1000?

It depends… were I wearing it as an active layer, -22*C / -10F would be its lower limit. Just standing around in camp, I find it’s comfortable @ -4*C / 25*F or so.

The Alpine Light is warmer, and I’ve used it actively at -25*F / -32*C, though not for extended periods.

Warmth is so relative, and has so many variables!

Sure is. I have Mountain Hardware Nilas for the very cold days. -8 celsius with that one is shooting sparrows with cannonballs. Something a bit less warm like 0c to -9celsius with a fleece, a hardshell, a merino layer and the down jacket. Maybe la sportiva 200 or 300. Difficult.