Down-Filled Backpacking Quilts (Market Survey and Gear Guide)

I’m confused about limit temperature.  You only include it as a reference point so it doesn’t matter that much, but…

13537 only specs sleeping bags, not applicable to quilts.  I think what you call limit temp is just the value claimed by the manufacturer.  So it’s not very good for comparing different quilts.

You use fill volume to calculate warmth index, but like you said, depending on how overstuffed the down is, the actual warmth varies.  But this is the best you can do.

With a quilt, if it’s wider, then this doesn’t really add to warmth.  Except, if it’s narrower then you’re more likely to have drafts coming in the sides which can significantly decrease actual warmth.  If a person tosses around more then there will be more drafts.

It’s too bad this isn’t spec’d better so people can do better comparisons between brands or to select a quilt for the minimum temps they’re going to encounter.

I like your comparison of warmth index to value index, this question of how to spec limit temp is a side issue.

Interesting that Enlightened Equipment essentially uses the least down and is considered the highest performer. It is probably the most criticised brand for overstating warmth from what I see online.

Hopefully you’ll consider ignoring temperature ratings – which are probably only a reasonable frame of reference between models for a particular brand. So, when you look at a quilt that contains, say, 10000 ci of down, compare that to another quilt that has about 10000 ci of down. One of those may be rated “25” and another “35” – but using those ratings for comparing performance between quilts from different brands isn’t too valuable. For example, a Gryphon Aries 20 can’t really be compared to a Nemo Pulse 20 – these two are definitely in different temperature limit classes. But the Aries 20 is quite a bit heavier, as well (more down).

Jerry, your comments are right on the money regarding down fill qty vs. warmth.

In comparing fill power, would a simple ratio be accurate?

i.g. In comparing 800fp to 850fp would I multiply by 800/850…(16/17)?

In comparing fill power, would a simple ratio be accurate?

i.g. In comparing 800fp to 850fp would I multiply by 800/850…(16/17)?

In terms of loft-volume per mass of down, I think this is true.

Thanks Dan.

EE gets a bad rap. Personally, I think it’s a great quilt for the price. In a recent newsletter they said that their price of high power down has gone up 35%. Expect a price increase.

Thank you for the article!  Jumping in as I’m very interested in learning about down fill metrics myself so please correct me if I’m wrong…

Would “measured loft” be a more accurate metric to represent warmth than fill volume (assuming similarly sized quilts, i.e. they cover the user appropriately).

EE says that Overstuffing beyond the weight needed to fill a volume doesn’t necessarily lead to material improvement in a quilts warmth.  I believe Timmermade makes a similar claim on their site.

If so, then the only thing that matters is the loft of the quilt (assuming it holds that loft in the conditions used, and a user can stay under it effectively without drafts), or am I missing something?

For example:

• EE lists the Enigma 20 with a “Target Loft” of 2.5″
• HMG responded to an inquiry I sent about their 20 degree quilt quoting a loft of 2.75″
• Timmermade lists the 20 degree 900fp Coati with a “Calculated Loft” of 3.74″ (*EDIT* Realized after posting that calculated loft and measured loft are not the same metric – and Timmermade doesn’t currently list the measured loft of their quilts)

If those values are accurate, and loft is a true measure of warmth, then the Coati 20 quilt is the warmest of the three, with the Enigma 20 behind both the Timmermade Coati 20 and the HMG 20.

And one could create an index of loft vs weight (using your listed weights) like this:

Assuming my interpretation of these metrics is accurate (and the metrics are measured in the same way), it would suggest one would be getting 50% more warmth per ounce with the Timmermade Coati.

I hope this adds to the conversation and doesn’t create confusion!

To calculate how much down to put in a baffle, divide the volume in cubic inches by the fill power.  For example, if a baffle had 400 cubic inches, you should put in 1/2 ounce of 800 fill down.  Then add 30% overstuff  so that down doesn’t shift and create spots with no down.  And account for loss of loft because of humidity or whatever.

Richard Nisely did some measurements of down and warmth.  He showed that down has a particular warmth (R value per inch) up to the point the down is fully lofted – for example 1 ounce of 800 fill power down in 800 cubic inches.  If you overstuff up to 150%, that will increase the warmth half as much.  For example, if you put 1 ounce of 800 fill in 400 cubic inches, it would be overstuffed 100%.  The R value per inch would be 1.5 * the R value per inch of fully lofted.

I think this answers the question of comparing 850 fill power to 800 fill power.  You need (850/800 = 1.06) more weight of 800 fill down than 850 fill down.  If you had 10 ounces of 850 down, you’d need 10.6 ounces of 800 fill down.  A small difference.

It’s about 2.5 R per inch for fully lofted.  Not that knowing the R value helps you : )

I assumed it was another plug for retailers, but this time maybe based on contribution levels? Like Baja Bob, my impression from reviews is that EE is a mid-tier quilt maker. My own personal experience aligns with my impression of the reviews. Gryphon, Nunatak, and Katabatic all get consistent high praise, so to see them lag behind ES in comparison was unexpected. My experience with Katabatic and Nunatak is that they’re both noticeably superior to EE. I did like all the data, though.

Not necessarily the nicest, EE rates high in the best buy category with a high warmth to weight ratio. Keep it clean and fluff it well before use. Sometimes the down needs to be redistributed. They’re a good entry level quilt.

In the master product table, I think you have the prices for the Gryphon Ares quilts mixed up.  You have the 20 degree quilt for $327 but the 30 degree quilt for $414, and the 40 degree quilt for $388. Were you picking different options for each of these?

I’m curious why Jacks ‘R’ Better wasn’t included in this study.
Their Ultralight Big Meadows quilts use 1000FP down, are available in 0, 20, and 40 degree temps, and their weight and cost are competitive with all of the quilts in this survey.

Can’t edit the post from my phone, but meant to point out the Big Meadows quilts are 56″ wide at the shoulder, theyre not hammock-specific quilts.

I’d be interested to see where feathered friends quilts fall on these metrics. Also a comparison between ultralight mummy bags and quilts. My feathered friends mummy bag adds 2 oz to comparable quilts which has never been worth it for me to trade the simplicity of a mummy bag with a warmer head/face vs drafts from tossing and turning, needing a separate down balaclava or something. But I’m always looking to see if there’s something better

I think it is a complete myth that quilts reduce weight and bulk…They usually need more insulation in them to make them as warm as an equivalent rated mummy sleeping bag, and that can actually make them heavier.  You will struggle to find a quilt as light as the Rab Mythic Ultra 360 with the same warmth rating (17.6’f (-8’C) and 625g), for example.

You lose most of your body heat from your head, and of course quilts offer no head insulation at all,  so they will always feel colder than a sleeping bag.  Yes you can carry special head gear to keep your head warm but it just adds weight so you haven’t saved any weight in the end.

Plus you cannot sit up on your pad in the morning, or at night, with a quilt without instantly getting a freezing cold back, again making them much colder than a mummy sleeping bag.

I recently watched a video on youtube where some guy was using a Nemo Tensor sleeping pad with a supposed R value of around 8, and some American made quilt with a supposed 0’f (-17’C) rating.  It was a relatively mild 41’f (5’C) overnight yet in the morning he said that he slept cold overnight.  I have never slept cold in my 30’f (-1’C) mummy sleeping bag, on a 7mm thick CCF pad, even at -3’C overnight.

So I would have to say, don’t get caught up in all the quilt hype, and don’t waste your money…There is a good reason why mummy sleeping bags were invented, and why have worked so well, for so many, for many decades.

I think this is an interesting take. I know I like my quilts wide and long so I can minimize drafts and pull it over my head if I get cold (I don’t worry about condensation as most of my trips are only 2-3 nights long), so this pushes them up to the mid 20s ozs for a 20 degree rated quilt. I always wear a hat no matter if I use a quilt or a sleeping bag, so that is not a factor for me.

The statement above is subjective, no data to back up the opinion. How about some actual weights comparisons?

At least one maker offer a 22F hoodless/zipperless bag at 21 oz.
Granted less flexible that a quilt, but with a zipper it would maybe just be a couple three ounces more

I’d be interested to see where feathered friends quilts fall on these metrics. Also a comparison between ultralight mummy bags and quilts. My feathered friends mummy bag adds 2 oz to comparable quilts which has never been worth it for me to trade the simplicity of a mummy bag with a warmer head/face vs drafts from tossing and turning, needing a separate down balaclava or something. But I’m always looking to see if there’s something better

If your feathered friends mummy bag is only 2oz heavier than a comparable quilt, consider that it probably has two oz more fabric to make the bottom and hood, which means the layer of down insulation on top of you isnt going to be as thick as it would be on the quilt.  The quilt will be warmer for the area it covers.  I agree on the balaclava though.  I might only need a beanie when using a mummy bag on the ground, but the beanie isnt enough when Im in my hammock using quilts.

My bag is the ff hummingbird 20f ul with 14oz fill and 26oz total in regular size. Fp is 900 but I don’t know the loft/baffle size so there’s that element.

Love the idea of quilts having no zipper (one less thing to snag or break), but the weight savings is lost by the need for a little more width to seal out drafts when it gets cold.

I thought EE was a popular and well-liked option among the thru hiking crowd so that should count for something. I’m sure there are higher quality quilts out there, but that mostly comes with an increase in weight too, so after reading this article, I would definitely keep them in serious consideration.

Alf B –

Keep in mind that the Rab Mythic 360 is EN Comfort rated to 28°F.  At a price of $770, that is like the Ferrari of sleeping bags.

Losing most of your body heat through your head has been debunked years ago.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2008/dec/17/medicalresearch-humanbehaviour

Special head wear required when using a quilt?  I always bring a fleece beanie and have at least 1, maybe 2 pieces of clothing that are hooded rather than being 1/4 zip or crew-neck tops.  That includes my down hoodie and my Polartec AlphaDirect hoodie.

Finally, it’s not just about the grams!  I HATE being confined in a mummy bag at night.  I toss and turn, and doing that while fully zipped in a mummy bad sucks.  Many ultralight sleeping bags also trim weight by being cut as slim as possible.  I’m a big dude.  A “lightweight” mummy bag that’s designed for a 165lb guy does not work for me.

Speculation:  many of the “cold in a quilt” complaints are due to poor draft management.  People buy narrow quilts instead of wide ones, they’re using the pad attachment straps improperly or they didn’t get appropriate pad attachment straps to begin with.  I like the way Zenbivy’s system addresses cold drafts, and I plan to retrofit my Enlightened Equipment quilt to mate with a Zenbivy sheet and test it later this year.

For 3-season trips, I would pick a premium quilt from Katabatic, Nunatuk, Gryphon Gear, or Zenbivy any day.   Winter or mountaineering? Fine.  Get a long/wide winter rated sleeping bag, or pair a 3-season long/wide sleeping bag with the same 3-season quilt I use the rest of the year.

I HATE being confined in a mummy bag at night.

Yeah. I sleep better in a quilt. I’m a side sleeper, but I don’t stay on one side for more than an hour or so (even at home in a bed). Even when trying to minimize the exchange of air, it’s much easier to roll over in a quilt. Anyway, I don’t really go out if the lows are supposed to be too much below freezing.

Jeff – great points, would love to hear about how it goes with the EE & ZB mashup.  I have tried to mitigate drafts that can occur when rolling over in my 10F EE Enigma by replacing the standard upper quilt strap with one of the lower straps that holds the quilt tighter to the surface of the pad and that has worked pretty well.

A really awesome gear guide and I think an incredibly correct and concise summary. Thank you!
Just one thing though, I think it’s a shame you missed out the Hyberg Slumber quilts, especially since they are even better than the loner light in terms of value and warmth index.