Do you wear anything under your Echo Hoody (or similar)?

[Steve H]

For 3 season I’m trying to dial in my clothing system – without adding too much.

1. Echo Hoody + Peloton 97 Hoody + (packed puffy) + dedicated sleep top & bottom

2. Cap LW s/s tee + all the above

3. #1 or #2 but ditch the sleep shirt & hope my Peloton Hoody is dry for sleep shirt.

(my dedicated sleep clothes would be Peloton 97 zip pants & Montbell Super Merino LW crew neck coming in combined under 10 oz).

Am I just too accustomed to wearing a tee under everything, or is nice to keep subsequent layers cleaner/dryer?  Thoughts or advice?

[Nick Gatel]

One baselayer. Is the Echo a baselayer?

If it gets too cold to just hike in your baselayer, then a mid layer should be added. Usually fleece is best. Is the Peleton a fleece layer (at least 1/8″ thick is required for any kind of insulation and it should be highly breathable).

In 3 seasons a puffy should be used for low activities (camp chores) and resting.

A windshirt over the mid layer often helps. If it is loose enough, and secured at the bottom with a draw cord, it will actually act as additional insulation because it will capture a layer of air between the mid layer and wind shirt.

[HkNewman]

If the Echo is your primary hiking shirt. I’d go with #1 or #3.   #3 is tempting as the Peleton is only 5 oz, but if that 5 oz can be “used twice” ..

[Steve H]

@ngatel- excellent question, is the Echo a base layer. That kind of cuts to the meat of it.

@hknewman- exactly, if I can use the Peloton twice…

So would a wicking short sleeve tee under the Echo wick to the Echo, therefore keeping the Peloton drier for its second function? Versus no tee & the Echo wicking to the Peloton?

Continue this out, if the wicking wets the next layer but not the one after, would wearing a UL tee or tank (~ 2.6 oz) wick only to the Echo preventing the need for a dedicated sleep shirt like the Montbell (5.2 oz) Super Merino & afford usage of the Peloton in that role?

[Nick Gatel]

Base layers need to be snug against the skin. I like to call them contact layers.

The base layer will wick the moisture that the skin is evaporating.

If conditions are right, and you have the optimum thickness and breathable fleece mid layer, it should keep you warm and dry.

And this is the theory. Sometimes theory and the real world don’t match up exactly. Physical exertion isn’t uniform among individuals and we don’t hike on completely flat ground all the time.

I find that with a Capilene 1 base, an R-2 vest I can usually stay pretty dry and warm (unless it is raining) on most trips. In combination with an old model Houdini when needed, adjusting the vest’s zipper and wind shirt’s zipper to meet varying conditions, it works well for me. Also I don’t sweat as much as most people.

Bottom line is each of us has to experiment and adjust to meet the conditions and our own physiology.

[Brad P]

The Echo is not intended to provide any insulation. It’s great when it’s warm out and you want sun protection.

You will likely want to change up your choices depending on the weather rather than the same setup for 3 seasons. Some times you might want a light short sleeve shirt under it as mentioned above.

Sleep clothes depends a lot on the rain risk and how cold it gets at night.

[Chris R]

I keep hearing about folk using the Echo for sun protection but OR don’t list the UPF of the Echo shirts. I did find a mention elsewhere that it was 15 and if that’s the case it sounds too low to be much use. I’d be wanting something over 30, preferably higher.

[Steve H]

Good point Chris.  Most of my time is in the woods so it’s fine with a cap & hoody, but if/when I’m exposed for a significant period of time I’ll choose a different solution.

[Chad Lorenz]

Depends on the climate. Appalachians? AK or PNW? Dry sleepwear may be worth it. I don’t bother, but see why others do. Rockies? SW? Not a chance. Layers will likely be dry shortly anyway. I use an Echo (or similar) as a next-to-skin layer all the time. I’d skip the t-shirt. My 2 cents.

[Link .]

Chris, I have posted elsewhere that the Echo Hoodie has a SPF of 15 and I got that number from OR’s website HERE  if you scroll down the page and read under technology it says

ultralight performance. UPF sun protection 15.

I agree that it is not much sun protection.

[Chris R]

Ok, right down the bottom there. 15 is about as low as you can get and still call it upf. The North face hyper layer I wore this summer has a upf of 50.

[William Chilton]

Or is it 30, as referenced here?

The Echo material seems the same as that used in the Rab Pulse Hoody (though the two companies call the material by different names) and Rab claims a UPF of 30+.

[Link .]

it says new for spring 2021 season, “Argon Collection ”  so the old ECHO ones are UPF 15(and they have been for years according to their site) which they are still selling and when the new ones come out( being called the ARGON COLLECTION in addition to the ECHO or replacing it)in spring they will change the info accordingly. They usually have a sale to sell off old versions and bring in the new, I was disappointed when they quite making men’s size xs , but at least Patagonia still does.

[John S.]

For three season hiking I only wear an exofficio button down long sleeve with nothing under it…and then layer over with windshirt, insulation, rain jacket.

[Paul McLaughlin]

I have an Echo hoody, and have used it for protection from intense sun – 10-11K elevation in the Sierra on the snow in May. Conditions in which I have to apply SPF 45 sunscreen every two hours max to any exposed skin or I will be fried. The Echo gave me excellent all day protection. Whatever the numbers are, it works well as a sun shirt.

[Dale Wambaugh]

I’m reading Echo Hoody as a base layer with a hood. I have some Echo tees and wear them as base layers, looking for wicking and maintaining  a warm dry layer of air next to my skin. I add a fleece like a Patagonia R1 and then a wind or rain shell as needed, or just a wind shell in the same way a button down shirt would be added.

I don’t take dedicated sleep clothing but I wouldn’t be adverse to a spare base layer to swap out when the one I’m wearing is soaked. That’s a warmth thing vs hygiene concerns. I have worn a fleece or wind shell in camp while rinsing and drying a base layer in camp.

As far as sun, I often wear a long sleeve Echo for a cycling top in strong sun and have had no issues. The wicking is excellent. Durability is not as good as heavier fabrics, but reasonable. I’ve seen worse.

They make an excellent travel shirt as they can be hand washed and quickly air dried, and pack small and light.

The Patagonia LW tees are good too.

[Brad W]

I wear nothing under sun shirts while hiking. That would interrupt their breathability.

[Steve H]

@paul-1

Good to know it performs well as a sun shirt.

@dwambaugh

Yes, different opinions on dedicated sleep clothes.  I’ve found a dry clean lightweight set helps me sleep & I don’t care how dirty or sweaty my hiking clothes get. Plus I have them if I need them for added layers if needed. But I’ve got to keep them under 10 oz.

@rocko99

I hear you. Mostly same here, but thought perhaps a 2.6 oz Cap LW tee might serve a purpose. Might not.

[Brad W]

@hop The 2.6oz shirt certainly won’t hurt but what I have found with these fabrics and breathability your sweat/stink will permiate into most if not all layers within a day. So the undershirt will keep most oils from the other layers, smell/sweat it won’t, in my experience.

If you want a clean shirt once your at camp for the sleeping bag the 2.6oz shirt would be a great choice.

 

[Brett Peugh]

I had called OR earlier and they said it was 30.  I use an Echo Hoody but also carry a regular Echo T and a Senchi Designs Alpha Direct pullover.  If you treat the Hoody with Permethrin you have a sun and bug shirt.  I can use the T for sleeping in, as another layer under the Hoody for when it is a bit chilly, as a wash towel, and a few other things.  Even though the Alpha is very porous it keeps me pretty warm when there is no wind and when there is you can put a windshell on and you are pretty warm.  Even in XXL the whole 4 piece system is slightly over 1#.

[Link .]

I don’t know who you talked to at OR but my wife works for them and said it is 15 UPF. If it were truly double the UPF rating they have given on their site for years they would have fixed it by now and been playing up that feature, but instead it still states 15 and every website selling it states 15 and every review.

[Bill in Roswell]

FWIW, Outdoor Research is just about out of the 15 UPF Echo Hoody. Only a few sizes of Maroon and Black left. Other colors are out. New fabric and colors appear to be on the way sometime in April.

The Patagonia Tropic hoody is very similar, with a button on collar top which I like to aid ventilation. Montbell Cool Hoody is also similar, but it has a 1/4 zip which could be a plus or minus depending on personal preference for ventilation (and weight). I will definitely get the new OR Echo 30 UPF as my old one died long ago, thus the Pata Tropic.

Per OP’s inquiry, in cooler, windy weather, I wear a sleeveless wicking top under the Echo/Tropic to prevent chill-off (like when I’m soaked in sweat after a climb). I tend to find the sleeveless tops in cycling shops during clearance sales, though Under Armor and Nike make them, too.

[Brad W]

Nothing under sun shirt-Echo, Tropic, etc.  My system is as follows.

Sun hoody +/- Houdini 35F+

Sun hoody, Peloton 97, Houdini 25F-35F.

This all based on good pace hiking-not sitting around camp.

Add synthetic beanie, gloves to liking.

 

 

[Brett Peugh]

I guess who ever answered the phone was sales or whatever at OR.  Still, I find the Echo Hoody or the Echo 1/4 zip good for me in the sun along with a $1 foam visor and an Echo T over my head with the 1/4 zip.

 

I just wish they made a hybrid that had the hood and the 1/4 zip together.

[Link .]

OR has released some of their new ARGON collection with the UPF 30 rating instead of the 15 that the Echo collection is rated for but for a non hooded long sleeve shirt it weighs 6.6oz. THE BEST SUN SHIRTS OF 2021 a review by someone who tested some different ones(I don’t know anything about this person or their blog, just that he says he is the former Northwest Editor at Backpacker magazine)

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