Do you love your HMG pack?

I recently got a Porter 4400 for winter use, and a Southwest 3400 for 3-season.   I have just put them both through some tough trips, and overall I’m very pleased with them.   I’m just back from the second outing with the Southwest, a long cross-country Grand Canyon trip where I beat the hell out of it in high temperatures.

My main point of reference is Z-Packs Arc Blast, for which I favor the simpler pre-Haul version.   (I realize that the now-obligatory Haul modifications are popular with most people, but for me they are undesirable since they complication for no benefit.   I’m talking about the removable belt, the torso adustment, the load lifters.)  I was attracted to HMG for a fundamentally simple design that’s more robust than Z-packs, as I now do a lot of rough off-trail scrambling.   I also wanted to be able to go up to 40lb routinely — the Arc Blast (even pre-Haul) will carry that, but really it’s pushing the limits for the pack design.

For robustness the HMG packs have excelled.  I think the Cuben hybrid is a heavier grade than Z-packs use, in particular the reinforced base of the pack.   All the straps and padding are more robust.   In a sense the HMG is overengineered (at 2lb!) for gentle on-trail use when carrying 25lb — ideally, the Arc Blast is still my favored back for that purpose.   But the HMG is more versatile and robust, with the option of higher pack weights with no concerns about strength, and durability for rough stuff in remote areas.    So under your criterion for restricting myself to one pack for all purposes, I think it would indeed be an HMG.

I have also found the HMG packs to be extremely comfortable up to 35lb;   mine are untested beyond that.   I found that I just did not miss the Z-packs air-gap on my back in high temperatures.   Perhaps my back was sweatier, but it didn’t bother me in the Grand Canyon at 95deg, so it’s never going to bother me.   The best thing was that the HMG was less “fussy” to get comfortable, I just grabbed it and threw it over my back and was off.   I think the Arc Blast suspension is a great design, but it does need to be adjusted “just so” or it can dig into my back (last year’s replacement of cord with tape on the sides of the Zpacks mesh greatly improved this).

So, in summary – the HMG packs are well designed, comfortable, robust – and for only a small weight increase over Zpacks.

Two design niggles:

Belt pockets.   I don’t really understand what they were thinking with the design.   You can’t really open them with the hip belt fastened.   You kind of have to undo the hip belt and unflex it to open the hip pockets.    They are streamlined and won’t get caught when scrambling, that’s all I can say.   HMG can omit them on request, allowing you to attach Zpacks/Zimmerbuilt/MLD hipbelt pockets.

Side pockets.   This is not just an HMG problem.   I don’t know why, but NOBODY except Joe Valesko at Zpacks seems to know how to design side pockets for  people like me who like to use them for water bottles that are accessible by reaching back without taking the pack off.   For this purpose, they should be as low as possible on the pack, have ample expansion at the base of the pocket so that the bottle can sit well down in there, and have a pocket rim that’s “just so” – slightly elasticated to hold the bottle in there, not so elasticated that you need to wrestle with it to slot the bottle in there.

I have one of the earlier 2400’s with the less robust fabric with which I was somewhat disappointed due to what I considered premature wear .  I ordered mine as a mix between the Windrider and Southwest in that I wanted solid side pockets and a mesh front pocket.  They had no problem accommodating me.  As far as fit goes, it is the most comfortable pack I own and I have carried up to 29 or 30 lbs in it.  I just love the fit.

Since I have had rotator cuff issues I find NO packs’ side pockets to be accessible as far as reaching a water bottle is concerned so that is a non issue for me.  I always have to loosen one shoulder strap to reach my water bottles.  To address that issue, I simply carry a water bottle on my shoulder straps with a carrier from MLD or Elemental Horizons.

Now that they have improved the fabric I would highly recommend an HMG 3400 as an ideal choice for lots of folks.  However, for some reason I just prefer my MLD Exodus and Prophet packs…I think I have an emotional attachment to them since frankly the HMG is actually more comfortable, albeit for another pound of weight.

I’m mostly happy with my HMG Porter 3400. I like that it’s a sturdy pack with a solid carry (12 lb base + food for a week) and streamlined design that I can just forget about while I hike. I also appreciate the water resistant fabric that doesn’t absorb much if any water. The daisy chains and compression straps make lashing awkward items easy, but why a dedicated ice axe/tool loop(s) isn’t included is beyond me. I wish for more fabric and/or color choices beyond standard dirty white trash bag or burlier black hole.

As for barreling, I’ve only experienced it when carrying a big bear can (i.e. BV 500), but was able to fix it by not over stuffing the space around the canister and going vertical with packing. I think you can request HMG to include a frame sheet on new orders, which should help to eliminate any barreling. When carrying the smaller canister (BV 450) I’ve experience no barreling whatsoever.

I’ve never had a problem with the fabric against my back. I wouldn’t want to wear the pack without a shirt though. For sure my shirt becomes soaked with sweat, but the same as any other packs really. Since there’s no padding to hold onto sweat it doesn’t remain soaked like other packs might. (My Granite Gear Nimbus Ozone was horrible in this regard.)

No comments with respect to hip belt pockets since I go without.

With all that said, if I was shopping for a pack right now I would definitely consider Katabatic Gear’s new Helios/Artemis packs too.

If you’re ever in Sacramento you’re more than welcome to check out my pack. Just shoot me a PM.

I own an early Windrider, now called the Windrider 2400. I like it a lot.

I sweat against the back panel – just like every other pack I’ve owned, including frame packs with mesh. I wouldn’t want to wear any pack without a shirt. I haven’t noticed crinkling while hiking, and I’m pretty sensitive to noises like that. Overall, the Windrider is very quiet.

Haven’t had any trouble with barreling, even with the extension collar filled to the top. I can strap a bear canister on top, under the Y strap, and it rides reasonably well. YMMV.

Mine carries 33 pounds just fine. Under 20 pounds, I often don’t close the waist strap.

The hip belt pockets are a PITA to access while you are wearing the pack. It’s a twist-around, use-two-hands process. The size and shape are OK , it’s mostly the hard-to-zip waterproof zipper.

I have no trouble reaching for and replacing a tall, 1.5 liter water bottle in a side pocket while hiking.

The white fabric gets dirty over time. The black mesh at the lower back rubbed black onto my clothing for the first few trips, which washed out. Doesn’t matter to me.

I ordered an off-the-shelf Windrider, then cut off a bunch of little things that saved a couple of ounces. Next time, I would custom order.

I have several much older packs from other makers. The Windrider is my “go to” pack for all trips now. But most of my trips are on well-traveled trails.

— Rex

“Side pockets.   This is not just an HMG problem.   I don’t know why, but NOBODY except Joe Valesko at Zpacks seems to know how to design side pockets for  people like me who like to use them for water bottles that are accessible by reaching back without taking the pack off. ”

Not to drift us off course, but have you tried the ULA Ohm’s side pockets? They’ve long been the standard by which all others are measured. Very similar to what you described.

I feel that the 3400 or 4400 Porter with some 3rd party trimmings is a really solid choice. Endlessly configurable for winter or comfort-gear-for-significant-other loads, compresses down for summer loads. Have Zimmerbuilt water bottle pockets made to your specs; the pocket tops can be cut to whatever angle works best for on-trail access for you. You get a functional lower compression strap this way, unlike the one on the Windrider/Southwest.

I don’t know if HMG is still doing extensive custom work, but there’s a mod pioneered by Clayton Mauritzen which solves most of the hipbelt issues; they can make the pack with a tapered pass-through lumbar panel, which lets you use the Granite Gear hipbelt of your choice (or the Ice Pack belt, which nicely accomodates Zimmerbuilt pockets over the gear loops). Drives the cost up, to be sure, but worth it in the long run; I find that the stock hipbelts slip on many technical fabrics and have useless pockets.

I keep looking at the Katabatic Artemis; beautiful, durable, and KG has a reputation for quality. I would miss the daisy chains, though, and the ability to add whatever I can dream up with slick clips.

Thanks for all the comments on this thread. I ended up pulling the trigger on a 2400 Southwest.

Interesting the Katabatic Artemis was mentioned a few times here. Ironically, I purchased that pack about 9-months ago to compare head-to-head with a new ULA Circuit. Thread seen here (about 12 posts down). There was really a lot to like about the Artemis but I ended up choosing the Circuit (again) only because it seemed to move, and carry 25+ lbs, a little better on my body. I was a really tough choice though. I must have spent a week walking around with both packs.

Nick,

Being that you have experience with the Artemis and Circuit, and soon the Southwest, it will be very interesting to see which pack you prefer most. Please follow up and post your experience after you give the Southwest a test drive.

Disclaimer: my spouse works for HMG.

Anybody have any thoughts on the different hipbelt pocket options for HMG packs? I like my current zpacks one, but haven’t really tried anything else.

The MLD ones are nice, i picked them up since they were less pricy than the Zpacks. Worked as expected

I have used both MLD and Z and vastly prefer Z because of the volume and the top zip.

Useful mod here for one-handed operation of the zipper. I have done this mod to both the Dyneema X and hybrid Cuben pockets and it works well with both and has proven to be a durable fix.

I’m pretty new to my HMG pack, but let me tell you; based on the small sample size I have with it (just climbing hills, no major trips yet with it), I’d make sure and order the optional framesheet. It’s a bit more weight, but helps give the pack a touch more rigidity and form, not to mention keeping things from obtrusively digging into your back.

Also – if you don’t mind the additional ounces, the pods are a perfect fit and do a great job keeping gear organized. One still has to do the usual packing smarts in terms of keeping heavier things closest to one’s back, but they do make organizing one’s pack easy as can be!

I love my HMG Southwest 3400.

-I don’t find it any more or less sweaty than anything else.

-20 pound transfer is fine in my book.  I’m currently doing lots of training with a 20# dumbell wrapped in a 2.5# child’s sleeping bag.  I also tend to believe that comfort is a very relative term and don’t really believe any pack exists that will make 25# feel all that good at the end of 30+ miles in a day.

-Not sure I understand what you mean by “barrelling” but mine carries an appropriate volume well, including bear can.  I assume shape has a lot to do with care in packing.

-I think the hip pockets are fine.  I’m honestly not sure what people’s beef is with them; it’s a hip pocket…  I carry a headlamp and compass on one side, lip balm, knife, firesteel, whistle, on the other.

It has become my single pack.  Big enough for multiday, small enough for long dayhikes.  Built tough too; I’ve been abusing it pretty badly lately in canyons, getting it wet, and poking it with sticks crawling through blowdowns.  It’s filthy looking but I can’t get it to tear.

I have an HMG Windrider 2400 and like it. Previously I owned the Arc Haul and sold it for all the reasons Ralph mentioned. It’s a great design but in my opinion, over designed. I was always adjusting it.

As others have said, I really enjoy just throwing my pack on, snugging up the hip belt and possibly the shoulder straps and start hiking. It’s funny, I also have really considered the Artemis mainly for the back air flow but I’m really happy with my HMG.

The hip belt pockets are shit though. I can’t fit my iPhone 6 or even my Sony rx100iii in them. They’re too small and not gusseted enough and when it’s curved around your waist you can fit even less. I’ve considered cutting them off and adding some myog ones.

One guy wrote that he goes without a hipbelt? Did the older HMG Backpacks have removable HIP BELTS?

“Did the older HMG Backpacks have removable HIP BELTS?”

Not on off-the-shelf backpacks. Apparently HMG offers a hip belt slot as a custom option, see Will Newton’s post above.

— Rex

“I’m mostly happy with my HMG Porter 3400. I like that it’s a sturdy pack with a solid carry (12 lb base + food for a week) and streamlined design that I can just forget about while I hike. I also appreciate the water resistant fabric that doesn’t absorb much if any water. The daisy chains and compression straps make lashing awkward items easy, but why a dedicated ice axe/tool loop(s) isn’t included is beyond me. I wish for more fabric and/or color choices beyond standard dirty white trash bag or burlier black hole.”

Bye bye, HMG. Daddy’s got a new fling! I recently picked up a Hanchor MARL and I’m in love. So much that my Porter is heading to a gear swap near you. If you’re considering a HMG 2400 – 3400 Southwest or Porter, you should really consider a Hanchor MARL or FLINT. The craftsmanship is superb and some of the best sewing I’ve ever seen. At current exchange rates it’s about $70 cheaper than a HMG. Yes, I’ve only started this affair, but this pack just fits me perfectly. So far I’ve only taken a couple of 2-3 mile walks packed with my high Sierra 3-season base + crampons & ice axe and a simulated week of food and it carried perfectly (and better than the HMG). I’ll be using it soon for a couple of days frolicking in Yose Valley (day-trips only), so I’ll be able to share more insight when I return.

Interesting pack Alex. I hadn’t seen that one before… shoot us some pics and pls update after you get it on the trail.

My HMG obsession was short-lived. I could never get over the pocket configuration/sizing on the hipbelt, front, or sides. I disliked all the pockets on that pack and quickly sold it.

Right now I’m rotating an OHM 2.0, Circuit, Crown VC, and Seek Outside Divide. I started carrying a camp chair and fly fishing gear on recent trips (okay, and more vino!) so the SO gets most of the love. As great as that pack is, it does numb my hips when over 25lbs… my ultimate pack search continues…

Some thoughts on the ultimate pack —

7 years ago I decided to get one pack for all trips — the one trick pony. I ended up with my favorite pack of all time: a McHale LBP 36 with a bunch of options. Volume of the bag alone is 39L (~2400 cu inches) and has compression straps, so not super large. With the roll top extended, top lid, hip pockets, and water bottle pockets the volume is 79L (~4800 cu inches). On winter trips when I need all the volume and carry much more weight, I attach the load lifter system that makes heavier loads work much better.

After a year of using it on every single trip I found it was a bit large for many of my 3 season 2 or 3 day trips. So I ended up getting another pack for these trips, which is a smaller McHale Bump. I could have gotten by with the LBP 36, but there is something to be said about having two packs to cover all kinds of trips.

I have used many packs over the years, to include ventilated external frames… you are going to sweat. I own a Cuben zPacks Zero that I don’t use anymore. I can’t say I sweat any more with it than with any other pack. Sweat is a given you just learn to live with it.

Water bottle pockets… pretty important to me being a frequent desert hiker. I got rid of my first UL pack, a ULA Conduit, because the water bottle pockets just absolutely sucked. My McHale removable water pockets (for both packs) are awesome and can handle 64 ounce Gatorade bottles.

I used to think that hip pockets were, well… hip pockets and I never used them. The hip pockets on my McHales work extremely well and sometimes I take them when I really don’t need them. They are easy to remove.

Barreling… is not a term I ever heard, but I understand what you mean.  My Bump “barrels” and the LBP doesn’t. The Bump has a 32″ circumference and the LBP has a 36″ circumference. Knowing the circumference of a pack is a good way to figure things out and not all packs are cylindrical so one would need to take the average circumference. It’s a good question to ask a pack maker instead of only volume.

Pack material. I am not convinced that Cuben or even Cuben hybrids are a good pack material for longevity. But then, I think a pack should last 40 or 50 years.

You already have a couple of very popular packs; the Ohm and the Divide, so maybe you aren’t going to find the “ultimate” pack. At least an off-the-shelf solution. I will tell you that all-in-all, my McHale LBP 36 checks the ultimate box for me, but they aren’t cheap. McHale doesn’t sell S-M-L packs. Each pack is custom fitted to each customer, which makes a big difference. My hips don’t get sore or numb with this pack.

I have both a Katabatic Gear Artemis and an HMG Southwest 2400…because we all need n+1 packs.

Pros of the Artemis:

The Artemis has overall better fit and comfort for me. The hipbelt is shaped and rides better under a load. The padded back panel is nice and comfy and you can route the compression straps multiple ways, including under the side pockets. I got the 420D fabric and it is pretty bomber. The main con is the stretch mesh on the hipbelt pockets and backs of the side pockets – I’ve taken it bushwhacking on a few trips in the PNW and the mesh has a number of rips (tenacious tape now covers these). You may not notice this if you’re mainly on trail.

The HMG rides well and actually moves with my body a little better because the backpanel is not as stiff as the Artemis. I cut off the bottom compression straps, because they can’t be routed under the pockets (HMG, this is an easy fix, for crying out loud) and they aren’t really all that effective anyways. The hipbelt pockets hold less than the Artemis, but are significantly more durable. With the weights of HMG windrider and SW, you don’t have to feel guilty about not carrying a frameless pack.

If I could have the Katabatic pack with more durable hip and side pockets, I’d be quite content.

Trial packed my new HMG Windrider 2400 for an overnight with some scouts tomorrow.  I found it buldged a lot between the stays I the back panel.  It’s probably more of a visual annoyance than a comfort issue, but I repacked the gear into my Ohm 2.0 and will go that route this weekend.

I’m at 20 lbs fully loaded, with hammock and about 30 oz of quilts and puffy (top and under quilts).  I haven’t been compressing them except to push them down in the trash compactor bag in the bottom of the pack.  Then my clothes and hammock, then cook kit, jacket, etc. etc.  It’s not that talk, so I think if I packed it differently it might be better.  Any tips along that line?

I didn’t need another pack, but was lured into an impulse buy after hearing and reading the praises for HMG.  I want to love it, but the bulge and the waist pockets are also inferior to my ULAs.

I’m too late to return this one, and want to keep it new if I’m going to resale it anyway.  Should I give it another chance?. Someone tell me they had this problem too, and they…  Problem solved.  That’s  the encouragement  I’m looking for.

Thanks,

Bob.

Bob,

I’ve (mostly) learned to pack carefully between the stays of my Windrider 2400. I have been known to forcefully punch the occasional bulge found after packing, almost always not on a cook pot or other hard object :-)

The hip belt pocket zippers are kind of a pain, but I’m getting used to them. Don’t overpack the pockets, everything works much easier.

I’ve never worn an Ohm, so keep vs sell is up to you.

— Rex

Here’s the bulge that worries me.

I guess I’m just used to stuffing the quilts more than I need to because although my Ohm didn’t bulge this much, I packed that one taller too on the way home Sunday and noticed more give in the front pocket.

Do most use stuff sacks to give more rigidly between the stays? Has anyone tried the pods with quilts?  With the hammock I don’t have a pad to insert there.

Thanks,

Bob

are you putting the quilt bag horizontally or vertically?

putting the items horizontally generally reduces barelling … as much as you can anyways

vertical items have a nasty tendency to poke out  … with stays theres no real reason to add more vertical rigidity, it just causing barelling and inhibits natural movement … it can also throw off the balance of a pack

most modern commercial packs have either a plastic framesheet or some foam padding to reduce the issue

note that even the SO divide, especially if you dont use the crossbar, can have this issue to some degree … as i found out when i found out once when i threw some coiled climbing ropes into the pack … and thats a load carrying pack !!!!

even with framed packs, how you pack makes difference

;)