Mar 26, 2021 at 4:30 pm #3706414
Yep, apex reinforcement is 1oz dcf cone (ontheinside) with strips of 2.92 dcf for further reinforcement. I wanted the trekking pole handles to be in contact with the 50d polyester from the hybrid dcf. non hybrid dcf would be a disaster with the abrasion of pole handles on the outside layers of dcf. I did notice this and is why my new build is using a full coverage cone for abrasion rather than the partial coverage.Mar 26, 2021 at 4:40 pm #3706416
Sounds good. I like your methodology, thanks for sharing it with us.Mar 26, 2021 at 6:46 pm #3706428
I was thinking about your question and my response. I just want to clarify that I posted some peak pictures of my current build using the blue .5oz dcf. I used triangle reinforcements and this does indeed look like liteskin. It is actually 3.9oz Venom fabric from rsbtr on the inside of the .5oz dcf.
My first build with .74 dcf main fabric used the 2.92 strips.Mar 26, 2021 at 9:20 pm #3706440
Awesome. Spendy fabric. Likely to outlast the rest of the tent. My tent in the works that I have patterned is a Xmid 2P style canopy, I intend to use Membrane silpoly with Robic 420 as reinforcement material in a similar manner as you have. Sewn though, of course. Might have to try a DCF solomid after that though.Apr 2, 2021 at 9:48 am #3707457Diane “Piper” SoiniBPL Member
@sbhikesLocale: Santa Barbara
How did you do the corner tie-outs? Did you sew on the tie-outs and then put a stick-on patch behind? Did you sew through the stick-on patch? I have had trouble sewing through any adhesives, even masking tape. It gums up the needle and then the thread sticks to the needle and breaks.Apr 2, 2021 at 4:30 pm #3707495
Diane, the corner reinforcements of the .74oz pyramid have a layer of 2.92 bonded onto the top into the hem. My .5oz pyramid has the same with an additional layer of .5oz bonded onto the bottom and extending past the top 2.92 layer.
The 3/4″ hem is then sewn through three layers of main fabric and each reinforcement layer (folded into hem).
I bar tack three layers of grosgrain through the 3/4″ hem/reinforcements at two locations. I use the large 3/4″ folded hem just for this reason to have enough room for a second bar tack.
I have not had too many issues with the needles gumming up. Admittedly, I have encountered it but not at all on my current build. Perhaps, it could be due to me not getting to the sewing until the adhesive has cured? I’m also using 2mm adhesives versus some variants out there being 5mm or liquid.Apr 27, 2021 at 6:25 pm #3710590
Do you have a buckle at the bottom of the door zipper, a la MLD? They seem to think it’s critical, but the X-Mid, for example, just has a tie out on either side of the door zippers. Same for TarpTent if I recall correctly. I’m trying to decide if they’re worth it.Apr 28, 2021 at 8:10 am #3710648
Erik, yes I do use a buckle at the bottom. IMO, the buckle is necessary in order to maintain integrity of the zipper. This is quite obvious when closing/zipping the doors shut after you have pitched the mid nice and taut.
I do not however use a buckle mid zipper. I probably should do a mid zip tie or something but I’ve found the #5 zipper has not had any issues so far. In use, I have found the MLD mid zip snap to be a huge pain in the ass but it does serve a function.
I can’t speak to the use in other designs but perhaps these other mids do not exert the same type of forces in the zippers.
Dan, Henry, Ron have any insight or care to comment?
Hope this helps!Apr 28, 2021 at 8:33 am #3710652Jerry AdamsBPL Member
@retiredjerryLocale: Oregon and Washington
I did #3 zipper on my mid and it eventually failed. #5 better.
If, there’s a tent stake loop at the bottom, pulling directly in line with the zipper, then it doesn’t put as much sideways tension on the zipper. Less likely to fail. Easier to zip and unzip.
If the tent stake pulls outward, then when you zip the zipper, it puts a lot of sideways tension on the zipper.Apr 28, 2021 at 9:29 am #3710659
Thanks for your insight, Eric. My thought was that tie outs at the end of each side of the zipper would largely serve the same purpose – connect them both to the same stake before zipping the door closed. TarpTent achieves this pretty effectively with short loops of thicker shock cord at the zipper ends. Not 100% sure how the X-mid works as I’ve not seen it in person.
Jerry, that’s some good insight on the tie outs at the doors as well.Apr 28, 2021 at 10:47 am #3710669
Is there cat curve on MLD’s DCF mids? I’d think the cat curve would exert a tension on the entire length of the zipper, especially in the event of a windy area with all the guyouts in use. It seems like if you didn’t have a cat curve and in most situations, the tension would be maximized at the bottom where the zip tends to want to separate, which is why just a clip/snap at the bottom makes sense to me.Apr 28, 2021 at 10:59 am #3710670Apr 28, 2021 at 11:23 am #3710677Craig BBPL Member
Looks great! I like the sewing of strips of dcf onto the zipper and then bonding that assembly to the main panels.Apr 28, 2021 at 4:33 pm #3710710
Jerry, that does make sense and is correct.
The problem is exacerbated though when not staked/pitched directly to the ground. If you pitch the mid in a way that allows a tiny bit of an awning at the front panel (and more of a pentagon shape) then the bottom of the zipper is far from the ground. Also, the flat single panel turns into two panels at slightly different angles. Guyline/stake loops then would need to be angled “differently” as opposed to straight centered down like the zipper in order to maintain taught panels. Tough to explain. You’d have to criss cross your two guylines at the bottom of the zipper.
shows the guyline being angled rather than straight down.
Regarding the buckle…i don’t remember lol. I will say not to use a buckle that is too small. You don’t want something fiddly. I’ll get back to you with an answer.Apr 28, 2021 at 4:36 pm #3710711
Also regarding the zipper, while I do feel like a #5 works well, MLD has switched to #8 zippers, to my current knowledge.Apr 28, 2021 at 5:20 pm #3710716Jerry AdamsBPL Member
@retiredjerryLocale: Oregon and Washington
yeah, it’s worse when the edge is further off the ground, tends to be more sideways tension across the zipper.
If you set up the tent with the zipper zipped, and then stake out the bottom of the zipper with tent stake loop/guyline so it pulls directly in line with the zipper, then there will be much less sideways tension on the zipper which puts less stress on it so it will be less likely to fail and easier to zip and unzip
the failure is that after you zip it, the zipper comes apart in the middle.
#8 zipper is not ultralight, but it’s only maybe 1/2 ounce heavier than a #5 zipper, so it doesn’t make that much differenceApr 28, 2021 at 6:38 pm #3710721
Jerry, regarding zipper weight. rsbtr lists #3 and #5 uretek zippers at 3g/ft and 7g/ft respectively. Do you know how much the #8 weighs?
Doing some quick calculations, (estimating 12g/ft) it would save me about 2/3 of an ounce on my mid. I gained about .5oz using the #5 compared to #3 but imo def worth it. Using .5 dcf, I would not even consider a #8 but if I made another .75 dcf mid, a #8 would be enticing.
Your mention of failure occurring in the middle makes me want to consider carrying a couple pieces of hardware I could bond on to mitigate the issues mid zip (remember I don’t use any protection mid zip). Temporarily, of course.
Buckle used for .5 mid I believe is this one from both ripstop and zpacks. Zpacks 1/2in description is incorrect however they say in further details it is 10mm (3/8″ is 9.525mm) https://zpacks.com/products/1-2-side-release-buckle & https://ripstopbytheroll.com/collections/plastic-buckles/products/ul-side-release-buckle Pic of buckle I used for .5 dcf mid. More robust than many 1/2″ or 5/8″ buckles:
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