Day Three Syndrome at Philmont

Agreed.  Days 3 – 5 are the hardest for the crew, regardless of itinerary.

Day 3 is classic “storming” – the newness and excitement has worn off and things are getting hard.  As David Y says – for the advisers, knowing this is coming helps prepare for it, but I believe it should not be avoided.  Rather, this is a normal part of team building and, when the team works through the conflicts themselves (with support from the adults) they are stronger for it.

Imagine how much money Philmont could raise if they installed an old-timey saloon at the day 4 staffed camp.

Looks like the BSA may need that extra money from saloons at Philmont staffed camps as they are in the process of declaring bankruptcy over the sex abuse claims.

Our Troop is considering making an offer to buy Philmont, after the fires and now bankruptcy we may be able to get it at a deal. LOL

We’ll see.  It is certainly a challenging time for BSA.  I’m not sure if the current leadership will be up to the task, but I hope they are.

On another forum, keeping in mind this is the internet, someone said that Philmont is in a trust that could shield it from bankruptcy proceedings. I’m not a lawyer (still have my soul), so I don’t know.

Chapter 11 would not dissolve BSA and it would affect national, not the councils. It could be the means to get them through this, financially.

And yes, I still want that saloon!

Yes, the current leadership has certainly changed the old standard.

We all hope the BSA will survive its modern day challenges and present leadership, we love Scouting and what it has stood for a century. And that Philmont is insulated from national leadership policies.

Philmont has become the icon of the Scouting experience: the Patrol Method, camping, cooking, navigating, backpacking, LNT, leadership, comradery, etc., everything Scouting is all about. God save Philmont.

Ah, “And yes, I still want that saloon!” those saloons.

We are only mortal men just as God made us, and of worldly experiences, so no one should expect us to be pure or innocent. We can only hope to pass on our morals, wisdom and good sense of humor by being good examples of real men, not monks, “Remember I’m still a guy”. So lift a glass to being men, just not in their presence.

 “Philmont should be enjoyed, not endured.”

Thanks for the clarification.  I’m an Eagle scout who thinks the recent changes can only help scouting survive in the current century.

Thank you, Kevin.  I don’t think that misogyny or unfair bias have any place in any organization that is aimed at kids in today’s society.

The cure for “Day Three Syndrome” is “Drink More Water”. Which is partially true.

During your Ranger training and talks you’ll find that their cure for most anything is “Drink More Water”. And it is for good reason. The most common illness at Philmont is dehydration because of the high altitude and very low humidity that most of us low landers are not adapted to. Few campers at Philmont are accustom to drinking so much water as is necessary there, 6 to 8 quarts a day versus 6 to 8 glasses that we are used to. So:

If you have a headache, “Drink More Water”,

If you can’t sleep, “Drink More Water”,

If you get a blister, “Drink More Water”,

If the climb is too hard, “Drink More Water”,

If you cut your finger, “Drink More Water”,

If you break a leg, “Drink More Water”,

And so on.

And never go anywhere at Philmont without your rain gear and “a quart of water” for good reason,  it rains every day and you need so much water.

Though I’m injecting humor into the need for water would cure some of these illnesses their point is we need to drink so much water.

Philmont should be enjoyed, not endured.

“Drink Water” is so true.

It applied to Fort Carson, just up the road a bit.  That mantra was taught to every new soldier upon arrival.  It was not uncommon to see folks carry a gallon jug of water around or in class, one for the morning and refilled for the afternoon.

The National Council of BSA is a federally chartered corporation. It is not a trust.  Like any other for profit or not for profit corporation, it can be sued for damages and found liable. As David Y observes, the councils are separate entities. The national council owns Bechtel and Philmont and the other High Adventure Bases.  The last annual report highlights two main issues of financial risk 1) debt especially the debt from loans and bonds issues to develop Bechtel (there is a LOT of it relative to revenue) and 2) the current lawsuits (and possibly many future lawsuits) against the BSA for sexual abuse of Scouts.

+1 for the comments by Kevin B and Paul Wagner about the opening of Scouts to all youth.

For more Interesting reading here: https://scoutingwire.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/2017-Annual-Report-Combined-FINAL-App-Version.pdf

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Another +1 from me concerning opening the BSA to everyone.

Tonight, my son’s troop is having their first “recruitment night” for the Girls Troop, which will be able to have it’s first official meeting in February.

His two younger sisters are thrilled, and can’t wait to join.

And we all get to honor him at his Eagle CoH this Sunday.

A an Eagle Scout and a extremely active OA member in my youth, I truly believe that my time in BSA was the pinnacle of my childhood, and served as a foundation of much of my identity as an adult.

Yet, I never would have imagined (or even may have supported) BSA opening up their program to Girls back then. But as a father of a son (who believes he might be gay) and two daughters who simply didn’t resonate with the GSA program, I couldn’t be more proud of the changes BSA has been making over the past decade – into a more inclusive and welcoming organization for all children, regardless of their gender or their identity.

When I told my girls last year about being able to join BSA, my older daughter immediately replied: “I want to be an Eagle Scout!”

YiS

Matt

A big +1 to all who advocate inclusion.

Your mentality is going the way of the dinosaurs, David Y. And for that I am thankful.

Thanks Matt for sharing your story. I am in favor of the opening to girls if only because it aligns the BSA in the USA with the world scouting movement. I do think there will be an adverse impact on the GSA.

In reference to GSA programs, I can only say that my daughter had a great experience, and she probably camped as many nights as my son, who is an Eagle Scout. She also learned more about cooking over an open fire than my son did in his troop.

In terms of GSA High Adventure, I see more GSA troops backpacking on the PCT than BSA troops, especially between the Robinson Creek Drainage and north to Tahoe. I think the GSA must have a high adventure camps somewhere near Carson Pass.