Crew roles and duty roster

[Bob Shuff]

Questions about how the duty roster is typically done – I realize it will be scout led.

We will have 7 scouts on the crew, and 3 will have Crew leader roles (Crew Leader, Chaplain’s Aide and Wilderness Pledge Guia.  I assume those 3 will also participate in the daily duty roster roles for: Cooking, Cleaning, Bear Bags, Water/Fire and Navigator.  Has anyone done this differently?

The Philmont website suggests there is a lead and assistant for each role, to be rotated throughout the trek.  That’s 10 positions each day.  They further suggest that each scout move from assistant to lead and then on to a different assistant’s role.  Each scout would act as assistant and lead in each role at least once.  Sounds ideal, but we don’t have 10 scouts to follow that system exactly.

With only 7 scouts, do the advisors also take a position on the roster and rotate with the scouts?  I could see that it would help the esprit de corps to be working side-by-side and sharing the load, however I’ve also heard that rangers really push the crew of scouts to do the heavy lifting (figuratively and literally).

This leads (sorta) to another question about who carries what for crew gear.  I’ve heard many say that the cooks carry stoves and cook pot, cleaning would carry the wash pot and scraper/sump filter, bear bags, etc.  Have you guys rotated around these items?  Seems like it would be more likely for something to get left behind if the carry job changes every day.  At a minimum it will slow down the breaking of camp as each scout has to figure out how to fit the 8 qt pot into their pack.

Lastly, what items did you advisors always carry?  I was thinking crew First Aid Kits, Dining Fly, Water purification tabs, soap and hand sanitizer, and maybe a water filter/purifier if we bring one, satellite communicator if we bring one, and a separate coffee pot/cooker if we bring one.

Thanks in advance for your feedback.

-Bob

[TAG in AZ]

Ok, I’ll do my best to answer.

Crew Lead, Gaia and Chaplain’s Aide are not duty roster positions. And, frankly, we did an abbreviated duty roster. Navigator – we rotated Navigator each day and the Crew Leader was not on that list. The Crew Leader’s role was to double check / verify the Navigator. Cook & Cleanup – these, we rotated. One great idea I’ve heard (and wish I could take credit for) was having the Advisors be the assistant cook and the assistant cleanup. Water & Bear Bags – we just had everyone who wasn’t cooking take care of water and bear bags (many hands make for light work). YMMV, but that’s how it worked for us.

If your crew wants / needs to have a strict duty roster like this one: http://www.philmontscoutranch.org/TrekPreparation/Shakedown/DutyRoster.aspx, then I would think you can just have 1 person in some of the jobs where you would ideally have 2. At the end of the day, the crew will decide.

Re: crew gear, the adults carried the FAK, tarp and a few other things. We carried the FAK because we were the folks that went to the WFA course. Each Scout had their own blister and boo boo kits. The rest of the crew divided up the gear based on pack size and hiking strength. We left it up to the Crew Leader to divide up the gear. We made adjustments during the trip, but generally, everyone carried the same stuff for the entire trip. It made finding things easier and packing up a breeze in the morning.

But, honestly, your crew will figure all this stuff out. It seems daunting before you go, but the crews I’ve gone with always seem to settle into a routine fairly quickly.

[David Y]

X2 to TAG in AZ

Don’t think you are doing your Scout a favor by carrying crew gear or doing crew duties.

Adults are not on the Duty Roster and do not do any of those duties.

The Crew Leader assigns each Scout an appropriate piece of crew gear to carry and be responsible for the entire trek. Everyone soon learns where everything is in an emergency. Each morning each Scout is responsible to collect and pack his assigned gear item. Those responsible for carrying the Bear Bags and Ropes retrieve and empty them at the Fire Ring then pack them away. Same goes for the Dining Fly, Cookware, Stoves, etc.

Each Scout carries his own water purification tablets and is responsible for his water. Don’t rely on someone else to purify your water.

Adult leaders may want to carry the comprehensive crew first aid kit and pump filter (if you choose to take one, we don’t).

 

 

[Bob Shuff]

Hi David,

I appreciate the reinforcement that scouts carry crew gear and perform crew duties.

Did you have 10 scouts on each trek or were there roles that you left without an assistant?  Did the crew leader rotate with the other scouts on the treks you joined?

Our practice on normal troop treks is that the cookmaster, for example, is in charge of planning, and leading the cooking and cleanning for meals, but everyone in that cook patrol chips in for both cooking and cleaning.  That would be the default practice for our crew for all roles unless the ranger says differently

Navigator, however, is not a committee job, so I can see that working well with the crew leader as his “check”

With a crew leader and 6 other scouts, I would think it would work better to assign an individual scout rotating through each of the duty roster positions: Cooking, Cleaning, Navigator, Bear Bags, Water/Fire and something else.  Maybe the 6th could be camp setup, such as deciding the tent vs bearmuda triangle areas and setting up the dining fly?  If not, you guys tell me which position really requires the one assistant, or does a scout get a day off?  As I said, they still have to help out.

 

[Ryan Jordan]

We ended up migrating to a different model for our wilderness expeditions.

While we gave everyone some cursory experience with all “roles” on short trips, we had elected / appointed permanent roles on our long expeditions. That is, a crew leader for an expedition was the leader for the entire expedition, etc. We did this for two reasons.

First, the leadership experience gets cemented better when one person is immersed into a single role for several days in a row.

Second, it became a reward for those who took the responsibility and time to practice, study, and earn their role, and earn respect among their peers for being elected to that role.

Our roles were: crew leader, assistant crew leader, navigator, head chef, and quartermaster. Their jobs obviously started months in advance of the expedition.

The crew leader and assistant crew leader were responsibility for managing the entire expedition planning process. They served as proxy members of the food planning, route/itinerary, and equipment committees (splitting those tasks between them). The committees may have included other crew members who didn’t have formal roles/leadership positions.

The chef was responsible for coordinating the menu planning, food buying, and food packaging process, and coordinating the on-trail assignments of group cooking, cleanup, water treatment, and firebuilding (if allowed). All of these roles were shared and rotated by everyone on the trip, and changed every day or two (two or three days for our longest expeditions).

The navigator was responsible for coordinating the route and itinerary planning process prior to the expedition, and the on-trail responsibility of actually navigating and/or making the final decisions regarding navigating and campsite selection with the crew leader.

The quartermaster was responsible for managing all pre-trip equipment plannning, including outfitting all crew gear, building the mandatory personal gear lists, holding our pre-trip gear inspections, and assigning crew gear carry assignments on the trail, distributing group gear in the mornings as/if needed.

As we increased the skill level of our expeditions, our crew gravitated away from the patrol method and its authoritative structures and towards a more cooperative team environment, which works much better for maintaining morale during longer, more difficult high adventure treks. So having well-defined roles that were focused on function rather than authority were much better for interpersonal and team morale.

[David Y]

At Philmont your crew will not have any coordinating the menu planning, food buying, and food packaging process. All those logistics are already set. You will hike and camp in the trek you chose and cook and eat the food they issue you.

Most Scouts will only get to attend Philmont once so they are expected to perform each and every duty at least once in a fair and equal rotation. The Crew Leader is responsible for filling out his Duty Roster, submit it for inspection and seeing that each crew member performs his duties each day during the trek, he may or may include himself in the rotation.

The day’s Navigator is responsible for staying on the chosen trail today, calling for breaks, opening and closing gates, holding the crew on the far side of water crossing, etc.

When you arrive at your next camp the Crew Leader picks a campsite, identifying the Bear-muda Triangle, picks site for the Dining Fly. Everyone participates in pitching the Dining Fly and hanging Bear Bags, especially soon after a Commissary pick-up. Then everyone may picks their own tent sites.

The Cook prepares, cooks and serves the supper. His Assistant may deliver enough water for cookware sanitation and cooking.

The Crew Leader should lead the Philmont Grace before anyone eats.

The Clean-up will take over after the meal and clean all cookware.

The Bear Baggers should put up the Oops Bag with everyone’s Smellables before bed time.

In the morning those assigned crew gear items are responsible to retrieve and packing in their packs. And a new rotation starts.

[David Y]

At Philmont your crew will not have any coordinating the menu planning, food buying, and food packaging process. All those logistics are already set. You will hike and camp in the trek you chose and cook and eat the food they issue you.

Most Scouts will only get to attend Philmont once so they are expected to perform each and every duty at least once in a fair and equal rotation. The Crew Leader is responsible for filling out his Duty Roster, submit it for inspection and seeing that each crew member performs his duties each day during the trek, he may or may include himself in the rotation.

The day’s Navigator is responsible for staying on the chosen trail today, calling for breaks, opening and closing gates, holding the crew on the far side of water crossing untill everyone has crossed successfully, etc.

When you arrive at your next camp the Crew Leader picks a campsite, identifying the Bear-muda Triangle, picks site for the Dining Fly. Everyone participates in pitching the Dining Fly and hanging Bear Bags, especially soon after a Commissary pick-up. Then everyone may picks their own tent sites.

The Cook prepares, cooks and serves the supper. His Assistant may deliver enough water for cookware sanitation and cooking.

The Crew Leader should lead the Philmont Grace before anyone eats.

The Clean-up will take over after the meal and clean all cookware.

The Bear Baggers should put up the Oops Bag with everyone’s Smellables before bed time.

In the morning those assigned crew gear items are responsible to retrieve and pack it in their packs. And a new rotation starts.

Philmont should be enjoyed, not endured.

[Bruce Tolley]

Bob:

My understanding of Philmont policy both in letter and spirit is that the adults are there just for safety.  So no formal role on the duty roster for the adults.

Depending on how experienced your crew is before coming to Philmont with a water protocol, I would advise against having everyone be on their own for water purification.  At every camp, some Scout or Scouts need to make sure group and personal water bottles get filled. You could make this a specific roster assignment.  Our Crew leader just got a couple of volunteers at every camp to do the job right after the tents were up.

In our crew the adults carried the FAK, a blister kit, the dining fly, a repair kit and some other just in case gear. I carried one of the stoves and a fuel bottle because I got up first and made drip coffee every morning. :-))

[Bruce Tolley]

BTW Is everyone aware of the fire near Philmont and the fact that basecamp got evacuated?

 

[David Y]

Water purification at Philmont has been made almost Murphy Proof. Just add one Micropur tablet to a quart water bottle, allow to dissolve, shake, invert and loosen cap to flush opening and cap and then 30 minutes. Tablet come in 10 tablet sleeves and everyone should have his own sleeve to care for his own water. Use a two-bottle method to be sure you always have a bottle ready to drink .

If Scouts can’t be trusted to do treat their own water then why would you trust them to treat everyone’s water?

Any other treatment method is superfluous and time consuming as all water still has to be treated with Micropur tablets to be purified. Water filters cannot purify water, only filter out silt and the big cookies, not the really nasty viruses.

You should be training with Micropur before you come.

[David Y]

According to news reports and Philmont the entire ranch has been evacuated.

[Bruce Tolley]

My understanding of Bob’s original question was about the duty roster and assignments.  In reference to water, the issue is not the mechanics of purification but having a process or procedure to make sure enough water is gathered and purified when you get to camp that will last not only through breakfast but provide water for each participant to have enough in his/her pack to start the next day’s hike. Whether it is Scouting or the Sierra Club, it is a PITA to have one or two folks “remember” when the group is ready to leave camp at 800am that they have no water.  In the summer at Philmont, such delays make it harder to reach the group activity. In the winter while snow camping or during shoulder seasons, such delays burn daylight and decrease your margin of safety in case something adverse happens on the trail.

You could have a scenario where each crew member of a crew of 9 is carrying 3 one-liter bottles, and 4 of the crew members are also carrying one empty six-liter water container.  Do you want or need all 9 folks down at the steam gathering and treating water?  Maybe.  Personally I think the more feet around the stream the more difficult you make it to gather up clear water so you only want a couple of Scouts gathering up the water.

But someone should “trust and verify” that the four six-liter containers have been filled and treated and that perhaps 18 of the one-liter bottles were topped up and treated.  Do you need a water quartermaster? Maybe. You could accomplish this with a ad hoc volunteer or an assigned quartermaster who just went to the stream and counted to make sure enough water was gathered and pills pitched. This of course is all Scout led.

[Brad P]

BSA likes to make one size fits all rules, but you know your crew better than anyone. I haven’t been to Philmont yet, so I won’t presume to give any specific advice.

Boy led is the most important rule. I would not want the same scouts doing the same roles all week. I’d want them all to be exposed to the roles and some are more enjoyable than others.

Adults will be better attuned to how the crew is handling the weight of gear than scouts will. This is where an adult might make a suggestion to the crew leader to make adjustments.

[David Y]

You can have a Scout on the Duty Roster responsible for Water collection for supper prep and clean-up. That frees up the Cook and Clean-up Scouts to tend to their duties. And that water is going to be boiled before consumption so no one can screw that up.

But I would not relegate or delegate drinking water purification to anyone else. Treat your own water, it is just too important to rely on someone else. If you, or anyone, gets sick no one else is to blame, just you.

[David Y]

We take a different approach to carrying large 6 to 10 quart water containers that weigh 12 to 20 pounds.  We have every crew member carry capacity for 4 quarts. During most days we only use 2 one-quart water bottles for purification rotation and have an empty collapsible 2 quart or more container for Dry Camps.

On those nights we will be going into a Dry Camp everyone fills all their water containers at the last water source in order to have enough drinking water until we reach a water source the next day. We do not cook and clean-up a supper in that camp. Instead we will eat a supper at lunch time near a good water source and eat a non-cook lunch in the Dry Camp.

Most camp are near or next to a good water source so everyone can tend to their individual water needs. For cooking crew members offer up enough water bottles for the menu requirements, then refill and treat their bottles as needed. We only boil enough water for the menu directions and sanitize our cookware in it before adding the food. only about 2½ quarts for most meals for 12.

Before bed time we all fill and treat 2 water bottles. In the morning we will down one full quart of water while breaking camp and eating breakfast, refill and treat that bottle and drink from the second while hiking.  After only half an hour the first bottle will be ready and 3 quarts of water is more than enough to reach the next water source. This is how you can stay well hydrated in this very dry climate.

Anytime you pass a water source you should finish off the bottle you are drinking from, refill and treat it and start drinking from the other so the rotation continues.

[Jeffrey Peters]

My crew was only five scouts and four adults. With small crews there is no easy way assigning camp jobs. On my trek us advisors did carry crew grear but we did not do camp jobs. We did help hang bear bags because in some cases they did need the adult help getting the bag up high enouph. As to water Philmont requires advisor direct supervision when lighting stoves and treating water.  Usually at some point after dinner each person would be responsible for filling their bottles and as a group we would treat them to assure that it was done and everyone had the water load out.

[David Y]

We don’t really assign Scouts to rotating Bear Bag duties, just names on the Duty Roster. We assign a designated Scout to carry and be responsible for the Bear Bags’ safe keeping for the entire trek and another Scout the Bear Rope, as with all the crew gear. Though they can’t hang the bags by themselves they do drop, empty at the Fire Ring and pack them away each morning.

Very often, especially soon after a commissary pick-up, it requires a lot, if not all the crew, to hang / hoist the Bear Bags, there’s a lot of food and the Bear Ropes don’t slide easily over the Bear Cables. 2 or 3 crew members on each of the two ropes and 2 or 3 members lifting the bags.

Which is why the Oops Bag system was created. The only items to be put in the Oops Bag are the comprehensive Crew First Aid Kit, everyone’s personal Smellable & FAK and any forgotten smellables, “oops”. If a food item is found or medication needed in the middle of the night a single camper can lower and rehang it by himself. We require every crew member to have a small personalized Smellables Bag to consolidate all their personal smellables in their packs and put in the Oops Bag nightly.

Same for the Dining Fly, though it takes the entire crew to set it up each day the designated Scout responsible for it strikes and packs it away each morning (or at day’s end before dew soaks it) with the help of his tent mate who may be responsible for its poles.

This method really simplifies everyone knowing where everything is at any time. When we walk into the day’s camp everyone knows what is in his pack that needs to be brought to the Fire Ring to setup camp. There’s no asking who’s got the Dining Fly, where’s the TP or whatever.

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