- Oct 17, 2017 at 3:41 pm #3497275
I am looking at getting into making my own gear and find myself constantly trying to cross reference manufacturers product descriptions, available materials on third party resellers, and Richard Nisley’s forum tests of fabrics. Is there a consolidated spreadsheet, possibly as a shared google doc, with all this information consolidated and updated by different members of the BPL community? As in “material name,” “cost,” “weight,” “initial hydrostatic head tolerance,” “cubex/flex testing,” etc.
JoshOct 17, 2017 at 4:26 pm #3497282
i second this. would be a great resource.Oct 18, 2017 at 12:04 am #3497361
#bplwikiOct 18, 2017 at 12:28 pm #3497425
Sam FarringtonBPL Member
@scfhomeLocale: Chocorua NH, USA
No. It would have to be maintained with regular updates. So we do that individually, and some are kind enough to post here about new developments.
Oct 18, 2017 at 12:50 pm #3497427
- This reply was modified 6 months, 1 week ago by Sam Farrington.
@pastyj-2-2Locale: Fed up with BPL snark!
What Sam said.
Great idea, but someone would have to own it and be dedicated enough to constantly update for it to be useful…I doubt many people have that sort of time/energy. The idea of a BPL wiki is, in general, a good idea if well implemented. The old “user reviews” section of the site was an attempt to fill this need.
But if a wiki existed, it would deprive us of using the fantastic BPL search function, or the joy of posting another new “any new fabrics?” thread :)
Oct 18, 2017 at 2:50 pm #3497439
- This reply was modified 6 months, 1 week ago by JCH.
Spencer ABPL Member
I found this spreadsheet that someone on here made a while ago: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WTUeFU39h_bXL4vqB9-cKlk3QHZf-TUE3UyGybtpDEY/edit#gid=0
It’s mostly focused on windshirts and WP/B jackets though so it isn’t that useful for MYOG projects. A couple weeks ago I spent some time compiling a list of bivy fabrics and their weight, hydrostatic head, and any other stats I could find. I should have a couple free hours this weekend to expand and better organize it.Oct 18, 2017 at 5:19 pm #3497448
I am surprised there isn’t such a wiki cataloging the incredible amount of research and effort that’s been put forth by members of the BPL community; especially, as JCH pointed out, given the fantastic search functions available.
In regards to Sam’s point, a shared excel spreadsheet similar to the google doc posted by Spencer wouldn’t require a single individual to update it – only that one of the many who knew about the spreadsheet to see a new update and enter in 7 or 8 data points.
Spencer, I’d be happy to add to your sheet as I come across updates across the site in learning how to make my own gear.
I’ll probably start something similar as below:Oct 18, 2017 at 5:23 pm #3497449
Also, I’m sure someone else has come across this product spec sheet from Montane but it’s nicely consolidated for a fair amount of materials and fabrics:Oct 18, 2017 at 8:06 pm #3497467
Wikipedia works. No one person would have to maintain it – it could, *should*, be a community effort.
Whether it’s a wiki, a spreadsheet or a google doc is irrelevant – that’s just a matter of convenience. A concise reference resource would be of great value to this community.
A convenient thing about reference information is that a good deal of useful content *does not change*: what sealant to use for PU vs sil; how long to cut a quilt based on height; what is Cuben; how deep of a cat cut do you need for a nylon ‘mid; how much down loft for a given temp; what do UL, SUL, XUL actually mean? I could go on and on. All this info is out there, but none of it is in the same place.
Docs such as those linked above are great…. once you’ve found them. Discovereability is everything. A top level link on BPL to the reference resource would provide this. Rummaging through forum posts for, what – how would anyone go about finding the above links if they didn’t already know they existed – is not a viable solution. If the resource is right there in front of the entire user base, on the home page, the odds of success go way up – awareness is essential.
I want to say the good will and diligence of this community would surely see such an effort succeed, but I’m just one person w/ a biased opinion. If I were to promote that sentiment I can all but guarantee it would be met w/ a similar and opposing opinion. The real questions to ask are not, “do you think others would maintain it”, but, would you personally: A) utilize such a resource if it existed; B) contribute to the growth and maintenance of such a resource?
I’m a big yes on both.Oct 19, 2017 at 5:26 pm #3497565
No one reading would be willing to draft or edit an entry or two in a BPL Wiki??Oct 19, 2017 at 5:38 pm #3497567
@pastyj-2-2Locale: Fed up with BPL snark!
I’m in. Let’s see if the BPL powers make it happenOct 19, 2017 at 6:52 pm #3497574
Spencer ABPL Member
I put this google doc together with some of the most common MYOG fabrics: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Qt31xHAuaDAEaki5bNc2rXutDRahNq2iCIlU5D0ryYU/edit?usp=sharing
It’s not complete by any means so I encourage others to edit it in order to fill in the gaps. CFM values are taken from Richard Nisley’s tests as are some of the HH numbers. Entries that have dashes (e.g. 3000 —- 900) indicate the HH after cubex/flex testing. If multiple companies offered the same fabric, I listed the company with the lowest price first. I wasn’t sure how to classify the HH of laminates such as Cuben or X-pac so those are blank in the spreadsheet.
Other columns I’d like to add are what kind of seam sealer works best, whether or not cuben tape adheres, more stats (tear maybe crowdsourced advice on needle or thread size which each fabric, links to threads that discuss certain fabrics, examples of gear made from each fabricOct 19, 2017 at 8:18 pm #3497587
I would definitely support and add to (truly more a consolidation of others work) a BPL wiki.
In the interim, I am excited to have a resource like the spreadsheet, and add to it with the info I can source. Alright, if I split the HH numbers into “Hydrostatic Head New” and “”Hydrostatic Head Aged” for before and after flex testing? Just easier for me to sort. I really like the idea of the link to the forum posts for more detail on working with a specific material.Oct 19, 2017 at 9:55 pm #3497594
Say we do get the wiki of our dreams. What’s in it? Or more importantly, what’s NOT in it? It’s obvious we want materials properties charts. I think patterns are fair game. Ditto a guideline for different types of stitches and when to use them. Pretty much anything supporting MYOG.
I’d say we definitely don’t want gear reviews. BPL already hosts these in a separate forum. I feel like any sort of buyers’ guides or gear round ups should go the same road – not in the wiki. Similarly any discussion about the use of any particular fabric for a given application – that’s what the forums are for.
What about skill related content? Not just how to sew. Things like how to load your pack, avoiding condensation, site selection, pitching a tarp – that sort of stuff. General skills, not limited to creating your own gear. But how to pitch tent Foo from manufacturer Bar doesn’t seem appropriate.
I guess I’m mulling over submission criteria.
(teaser: we don’t need BPL to install wiki support to get this ball rolling)Oct 19, 2017 at 10:18 pm #3497600
Hmm. I’d be inclined to include this https://backpackinglight.com/tent_stakes/ or at least an article that cites it as a reference, but it flirts w/ a gear round up / review. In this particular case I’d say sure, but I don’t know how it would fit in w/ a general guideline.Oct 20, 2017 at 9:24 pm #3497710
Anne SpeckBPL Member
Yes please to a BPL Wiki. I’m coming back to the site after several years away and I keep finding acronyms I don’t know and lists that include gear and even manufacturers (GoLite) which don’t exist anymore. It would be nice to have a place to tag manufacturers, gear they make, and their place on the outdoors family tree. (Like MyTrail has the intellectual property of GoLite and they have begun to reintroduce some of the products.)Oct 20, 2017 at 10:24 pm #3497713
nice spreadsheet Spencer
I work on a wiki for hiking trips. It took some time and a little money to get started, and a little money to keep it going. A bunch of initial decisions on how to do it. I’m just a contributor, not the technical guy that set it up.
It does require some management. I doubt that Ryan has the bandwidth for it.Oct 23, 2017 at 2:50 pm #3498014
@seacraft32-2Locale: New England
Just updated the spreadsheet with some of the details for the X-PAC fabrics. Let me know if you have any questions or need any other information.
TaylorOct 23, 2017 at 3:05 pm #3498017
Ken T.BPL Member
The previous BPL wiki attempt was a huge failure. That was 2008-09.
The reduction in editing capabilities here really screws with the Wiki format.
Still dozens of active Bug reports and feature requests for BPL to fix or continue to ignore. If you want a Wiki, build it yourselves.
BPL deleted the Wiki without giving a heads up so all the info that was there was lost. Another reason to go your own. Ownership.
I know, negativity…Oct 25, 2017 at 8:48 pm #3498400
Ok, I just started 2 threads to approximate a Wiki w/in the confines of a forum.
Let’s hope this works!Oct 25, 2017 at 9:46 pm #3498417
good idea Rene, good initiativeOct 25, 2017 at 11:13 pm #3498434
Ken T.BPL Member
I see Rene holding a space, reserved for later.
Do not forget you have a one week window to edit your posts.Oct 25, 2017 at 11:29 pm #3498439
So much for letting the rules and guidelines evolve over time.
This platform…Oct 25, 2017 at 11:52 pm #3498445
That said, this scheme does not rely on future edits. They could be nice, but not required.Oct 26, 2017 at 2:40 am #3498500
I wonder if you edited in a token manner a little more often than once a week, then you could edit it indefinitely : )
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