Coats, Hoodies, and Jackets

[Andrew B]

Well, I was on the verge of ordering a Montbell UL Down Jacket when I suddenly got cold feet and starting thinking of going synthetic. I live in the Pacific NW so I’m going to be dealing with a lot of rain. I already have a down quilt (at least it is in the mail as I write this) and I’m already feeling a bit nervous about keeping that dry.

Then I saw various sensible recommendations that it makes sense to get a synthetic jacket so you have back-up non-down insulation. This made sense given my climate. So now I’m looking at Patagonia’s Nano Puff.

Does going with synthetic make sense for a ~6 oz increase in weight? Can anyone from this area, or similarly wet places, weigh in on their strategy?

I’m also trying to weight the jacket-versus-hoodie. Hoodie seems cozy but I think I’m leaning towards jacket, since I already have a synthetic hat and an EE Hoodlum (down). On the back of my mind is some sort of complex vest-jacket strategy but I might try and start simple with a jacket.

Thanks for any advice!

[Lester Moore]

How long have you lived in the NW, and where do you hike mostly? Do you spend lots of time in camp or mostly hiking hours each day? And do you run hot or cold sleeping, hiking and sitting around camp typically?

After living and hiking on the Olympic Peninsula and WA Cascades for the last 6 years, I would say the season has more to do with your insulation choices than the locality (Pacific NW). June through early Sep here is dryer than Colorado, WY and other places in the Rockies and dryer than back East too, and less cold at night as well.

In summer here for short trips (3 days or less) with a clear forecast I only carry a 3.5 ounce down Vest (Borah Gear), Frog Toggs rain jacket, an EE Hoodlum and wear a long sleeve woven shirt for top insulation. The only time I start carrying synthetic insulation layers (either 9 ounce 100 wt fleece jacket and/or 4 ounce long undie tops and/or bottoms) is in the Fall or earlier in Spring or if there’s a particularly cold and wet forecast. In Fall if the forecast is good for a shorter trip, I’ll usually carry a 12 ounce down parka instead of the fleece.

Another good addition for Fall or earlier in the Spring is a little extra protection for your down quilt, depending on what kind of shelter you have. Probably no need for this if you use a 2-walled tent. You may also like UL rain mitts, an umbrella and/or a Packa or nice poncho for wet weather/shoulder season as well.

[Andrew B]

By the way, I realize now that the title to this post is kind of vague and redundant. I meant to revise it but forgot, and just hit “Post”

[Andrew B]

Hi Lester, thanks for the response – I grew up in Seattle but spent time away and had kids, so haven’t done much backpacking in 10 years; and none from an UL perspective (I used to just throw a bunch of sweaters in my giant Gregory pack and call it good). The Olympics are my favorite place to go, but realistically I’ll be mostly camping in the Cascades for the next couple of years, for shorter trips (1-3 nights). My plan (still untested until my tarp arrives) is to do a lot of hiking during the day, and spend virtually no time awake in camp. This is one of the big draws for switching over to lightweight gear – more time on the trail.

I agree with what you say about season making a big difference. I am specifically looking for a set up that allows me to camp in Fall and Spring. So based on what you said, perhaps synthetic insulation would be a good step now (going into fall). I can use it all this fall/spring and then buy some summer stuff then. What do you think?

[Tjaard Breeuwer]

Well, if you don’t need it for extreme cold, then the new Pata Micro Puff Hoodie sure seems ideal.

Even if you don’t want to spring for that level of expenditure, thinner garments suffer less from the excess weight of synthetic insulation. Lets say synthetics are twice as heavy as down for a given amount of insulation. A lightweight down jacket might only have 3 oz of fill, so you would only add 3 oz extra. In a sleeping bag or quilt with 12 oz of down, the weight hit would be much bigger.

 

[Andrew B]

Tjaard, good point – if I’m going to get anything synthetic, a thin jacket makes sense. That Micro puff hoodie looks awesome but I don’t think I can justify the expenditure this year…

[Lester Moore]

What kind of tarp will you have, and what are your quilt specs? Part of your insulation (clothing) choices depends on what you will wear to bed at night. 3 day trips are ideal – you have a pretty good idea of the whole trip’s forecast before you leave.

Another factor in your insulation decisions depends on your budget. A $20 Costo 100 wt fleece pullover and $10 32 Degree Heat long undie tops and bottoms work just fine for me for added Spring and Fall insulation, unless I expect nights in the 20’s or lower consistently (then I’ll take the down parka). I forgot to mention a 3 ounce windshirt in the clothing list in the above response – I find it indispensible for Fall/Spring hiking where it’s too cold for wearing just a long sleeve shirt, but fleece over a shirt would be too heavy to hike in.

If you want the most insulative warmth for the weight, then look for down jackets or parkas. Down is an ideal option if you hike all day and just wear the jacket a short while in camp or while sleeping, or the first 10 to  15 minutes of hiking each day if it’s butt cold. Compare the cost per ounce of down fill weight for various jackets or parkas – that narrows things down very quickly to the best options for your money. Montbell has many options to consider at reasonable prices. You’ll definitely like your EE Hoodlum because the synthetic insulation allows you to wear it sleeping or hiking too.

 

[Andrew B]

Lester, Sleeping-wise, I’ll be trying this out, this fall:

• Duomid
• EE Recon bug bivy
• 20 degree EE Revelation
• EE Hoodlum
• NeoAir XLite

I sleep pretty warm; can imagine sleeping with some clothes on but not needing a down coat on inside the quilt to keep warm.

After the jacket decision, a windshirt is actually the last major thing on my list. Can you tell me what kind you have?

[Lester Moore]

Andrew – your sleep system looks great for Spring and Fall around here, with good tarp coverage, wind deflection and rain spray deflection with the bivy under there. I just started using a EE Recon for Fall weather and it really adds quite a bit of warmth at night compared to an UL mosquito net.

Regarding wind shirts, I bought a North Face Binary wind jacket (3.1 ounces in Medium) because it was on sale for $45. I wear it nearly every day hiking and wear it to bed every night. I’ve found that a wind shirt helps keep stink out of the quilt and my down vest and provides low friction if you roll around a lot at night. In summer it’s excellent under a STS Nano Mosquito Pyramid Net because it does not stick to or catch on the thin netting.

 

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