Canister Stoves

Ryan recommends Pocket Rocket 2 : )

What’s good about regulator, is that especially when it’s cold, a needle valve stove, when you turn on the stove, it will operate at a good level, but after a minute or two, because of evaporative cooling the pressure will drop, and the stove will go very low.  So, you just have to turn the needle valve up and the stove will go back to a reasonable level.  A regulator stove will do this automatically.

This is a pretty minor advantage, except it’s a bit annoying when you’re operating the stove and the flame gradually lowers.  At some point you realize the flame level is way lower.

The ability to operate at low temperatures is the same for regulator and needle valve stoves.

Jerry-so other than curing the initial lowering of output in colder weather,  there is no other benefit to the regulator?

yes, in my opinion, from the perspective of the person turning on and operating stove

both types – you turn it on, ignite, set to the level you want

for needle valve you have the additional step of turning it up a minute later to keep the flame level at desired level

oh, just before turning needle valve up a minute later, I go “damn, why is this taking so long???  Oh, it turned down because of evaporative cooling, better to turn it up a bit”

What’s good about regulator, is that especially when it’s cold, a needle valve stove, when you turn on the stove, it will operate at a good level, but after a minute or two, because of evaporative cooling the pressure will drop, and the stove will go very low.
A bit of an exaggeration imho.

Yes, as a canister cools the pressure will slowly drop and the flame will decrease – a little. But the way this is exaggerated by some marketing is a bit over the top. What ‘they’ are after is simply the gullible customers who they hope to bias towards their own (rather more $$) products.

The hassles of monitoring your stove and adjusting it as needed while you are cooking are miniscule. You SHOULD be monitoring your stove while it is running anyhow.

BUT, the claim that a regulator stove can operate at a lower temperature is a straight-out lie. It is pure fraud. A regulator stove IS a needle valve stove, like every other stove. There is NO difference as far as low temps are concerned. You will find that this claim does not come from SOTO but from some very ignorant retailers.

Further info at
https://backpackinglight.com/pressure_regulators_myth_part1/

Cheers

totally agree with that – regulator isn’t any better at cold temps, the marketing hype is marketing hype

but, like I said, it offers a small advantage that it better stays at the same heat level even if the canister cools down.  If one could choose between needle and regulator, everything else being equal, I choose regulator

this is for upright stove, inverted I don’t think this benefit would be noticeable because the butane doesn’t evaporate inside the canister except a tiny bit to displace the liquid

I have a BRS-3000 knock off from Amazon because the link I followed ended up being to the knock off rather than the genuine model. Price was $15 or so. I’ve used it a few times, and it’s really tiny. You have to be sure to center your pot or you could end up with a spill very easily, especially if you’re cooking/stirring rather than just boiling water for a soak. I have the Toak 750 mL pot, which isn’t particularly wide.

On the flip side, it is super lightweight and has a decent output that brings water to a boil more quickly than I had expected for such a tiny stove, and it weighs seemingly as much as the tiny carry sack they shipped it in.

I can’t speak to durability as I haven’t used it enough. I’m not particularly handy and would have no idea how to attempt a fix if it failed, but at 25 g, you could carry 2 for a longer trip where failure could be a problem. I realize that’s an extra ounce, but if you’re going to carry a heavier stove anyway (that could also fail) why not carry two for the same weight? Only use one and save the other for use in the event of a failure.

because the butane doesn’t evaporate inside the canister except a tiny bit to displace the liquid
Actually, if it is a butane/propane mix, it is the propane which is pressurising the canister. Never mind, the idea is right.

Cheers

hmmm…  I better go back to your spreadsheet, except that’s probably different because it’s for evaporating in an upright stove…

Jay-Care to post a picture of your stove? From what I have seen it’s easy to spot the fake.

Legit  https://i.imgur.com/un7eEsg.jpg

Fake  https://i.imgur.com/gf7RoKk.jpg

The Legit looks like a genuine BRS-3000T to me.

The Fake is actually a copy of the Fire Maple FMS-300 – but still definitely a copy as the holes in the burner head are different. What they call it on the web – who knows, anything goes.

Would the fake work reliably? It might, or it might not. I have emailed with the designer at Fire Maple and quickly realised that he did know what he was talking about, but when someone just copies a design they know very little about the reasons behind the details. I have such a Chinese copy of the Whisperlite which is reliably lethal in operation.

Cheers

Roger, I had a similar experience when exchanging e-mails with a CS rep at Fire Maple. I asked whether their stoves’ O-rings were Viton or maybe nitrile or even neoprene, and he had no idea what I was asking. I’m thinking that their command of the English language might be a wee bit compromised. Still, their stoves are excellent.

My fake must be pretty close to the legit one. It’s branded Fohoz, though, not BRS.

I have a Fuhoz also, looks very similar to Roger’s “legit” picture

The “+” and “-” on the knob are slightly different

I’ve used mine a couple times and it worked fine

@Gary: there are sales reps, and there are engineers. I got an engineer; you got a sales rep. Btw: Viton and nitrile are OK, but the cheaper neoprene is not suitable. I stick to Viton.

@Jay and @Jerry, re Fohoz. A factor to remember when dealing with Chinese ‘things’ is that the factories seem to always have several doors. The things which go out the front door with the company brand name on are supposedly the ‘originals’, but the same things, exactly the same things from the same production line, can get a different brand stuck on them and go out a side door. They may be just the same in practice.

Meanwhile, the copies from the factory down the road may look very similar, and may even have almost the same brand on them, but they can be quite different internally.

So how can us poor Westerners tell the difference? Up front, you can’t. It is a simple as that. About all you can do is to make sure of the vendor you are buying from – and let them worry about the QC. I buy carbide cutters for my CNC from China via eBay, and I KNOW there is a lot of cheap&nasty around. So I only buy from a couple of vendors I trust, and I usually buy only their top-of-the-range stuff anyhow. So far, that works.

It may be worth adding that an acquaintance of mine swears that there are whole villages in China dedicated to making stoves which are obviously copies of Western brands. They even sub-contract to each other. It’s a different world, and ‘IP” is unknown.

EDIT: and the internal Chinese outdoors market is HUGE. Many Chinese mfrs only sell within China.

Cheers

The Fohoz looks like a re-branded BRS. I would expect it to perform similarly. Reviews look decent as well.

I have a couple of FireMaple FMS300s and a mate has the BRS3000-

We found in practice that they do burn differently and my FMS had better burn control/simmer and felt less loose and flimbsy but for the dollar difference most people are probably going to buy the cheaper BRS

I feel this is a stupid question, but… Can the cold weather performance of an upright canister stove be improved by sticking a hand/toe warmer to the bottom of the fuel canister? (Not ideal obviously, but say ambient temps drop unexpected)

It sure can, Norman, providing that you allow a bit of air to reach the hand warmer. For other ways to warm the canister, check out the BPL article on warming canisters in the winter (you might search ‘winter canister warming techniques’).

By the way, use a hand warmer – the toe warmers put out far less heat.

“Can the cold weather performance of an upright canister stove be improved by sticking a hand/toe warmer to the bottom of the fuel canister?”

Sure.  But the time scales are mismatched.  Those hand warmers last for 4-6 hours while it only takes 1 to 3 minutes to boil water.

While I love the concept, versatility and exceedingly low-temperature performance (to at least -25F / -32C) of a CMS (Classic Moulder Strip™), usually I just flick my Bic under a cold canister until it is cool to the touch (warm to the touch if it is a mostly n-butane horizontal canister).  It then stays warm enough for the few minutes it takes to boil a pot of water.

On a group trip, though, when I might be melting snow for 4-8 people and operating a butane-mix stove for an extended period, then the CMS really shines.

I always backpack with two mini-Bics so there’s no added weight or waste to deal with.  In winter, I go with two full-sized Bics (cause gloved hands) plus some back-up like a ferro-rod.

Can the cold weather performance of an upright canister stove be improved by sticking a hand/toe warmer to the bottom of the fuel canister?
As David says, yes but …

The easiest way to deal with the cold is to sit the canister in a bowl of water (from your water bottle). Then as the water chills down, add a wee bit from the pot to warm it back up.

Even very cold water will work, as butane boils at 0 C, propane around -40 C.

Cheers

“Even very cold water will work”

If you’ve kept yourself hydrated, you’ve got 500 cc’s of 98.6F / 37C fluids available at all times.

$8.95 for a canister of butane???  That’s outrageous…

$1.25 for the cheap stuff from Korean grocer plus $4 adapter is cheaper.  You pay for the adapter on the first cartridge

this could open up an endless can of worms from multitudinous previous threads : )

Jerry don’t forget that an Aus. Dollar equals $.74, but still pricey.

$8.95 kangaroo dollars = $6.50 US greenbacks which is about what I pay for 200-gram canisters.

Just 2-3 years ago, I’d find 100- / 200- / 450-gram canisters at $4.99, $5.99, and $7.99 but the price just keeps going up, especially the largest size which used to be the markedly cheaper option by weight.  I suspect that those who use butane to extract THC from cannabis aren’t very price sensitive.

I find the horizontal canisters harder to use when refilling a vertical canister.  Harder than refilling 100- and 200-canister vertical canisters from a 450-gram one.  I use more of the horizontal canisters directly, using an adaptor and placing them vertically with the stove head on top.

Although, admittedly, I haven’t tried that style of adaptor.  Amazon says, “This item requires special handling and cannot be shipped to your selected location.” otherwise, for $3.85, I’d give it a try.