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Can backcountry fishing save carried food weight?
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Home › Forums › Campfire › Editor’s Roundtable › Can backcountry fishing save carried food weight?
- This topic has 71 replies, 24 voices, and was last updated 1 year, 1 month ago by David D.
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Sep 29, 2023 at 10:09 am #3790167
George, where were you fishing that they changed management philosophy? I volunteer for the state of Washington packing fish into high lakes. National Parks quit stocking fish in the seventies (with a single exception, but that is another subject). The state of California did make changes in that time frame but as far as I know (and CA is the western state I know least well) they were air planting. Idaho still uses volunteers for some plants.
Sep 29, 2023 at 7:59 pm #3790201Wilderness areas in WA required walking in, no air drops. I lived a short distance from the Alpine Lakes Wilderness area. This wasn’t the only place I fished, but I did fish there most often.
Sep 29, 2023 at 8:35 pm #3790203Sep 29, 2023 at 8:37 pm #3790204Well, I can assure you that they never stopped stocking high lakes an any Washington wilderness area. I’ve carried fish into many Alpine Lakes Wilderness lakes myself over the 36 years I’ve been doing it.
Sep 30, 2023 at 5:38 am #3790212Sep 30, 2023 at 8:07 am #3790218Terran, the linked article is absolutely correct about problems with stocked fish, but, as much most such articles, it omits some research, muddies the waters (so to speak), and ignores current practices by agencies such as Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW) which is the agency and state I know best.
As cited in the article, studies on the mountain yellow-legged frog are the most well known high lake work on the effects of fish stocking in high lakes. But there have also been studies in other states, most notably North Cascades National Park (NCNP).
In most high lakes amphibians are the top native predator. Shallow, warm lakes and ponds are the best amphibian habitat. When trout or char are introduced they become the top predator. What they found in NCNP was that when fish were either over-stocked or over-reproducing naturally they could suppress or extirpate some amphibian species with the long-toed salamander being the most sensitive species in the area. At the same time, they discovered that in lakes were fish were stocked periodically and in low densities native species were preserved. And that is exactly the philosophy that guides current stocking practices in the state of WA. For an exhaustive deep dive into WDFW’s stocking philosophies and history see “Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife’s High Lakes Fishery Management Program”.
As recently as the 1980s the NPS was saying that the best practice would be to stop fish stocking but that there would always be fishing available because in some lakes introduced fish were able to reproduce. This is backwards. When fish are able to reproduce naturally in high lakes they will, most of the time, reproduce too well and over-populate the lake. In NCNP they have gotten really good at removing these spawning populations with rotenone. At the same time, some lakes are being stocked with non-reproducing fish and effects on native vertebrate and invertebrate species are being monitored. And, of course, if you stock fish that can’t reproduce they can be removed by simply waiting. More and more we are doubly assuring fish can’t reproduce by stocking sterile triploid trout.
At this point the biggest issues in high lakes are not the lakes being stocked, but the lakes with naturally reproducing populations. It is even worse when they are a non-native species like eastern brook. These stunted populations can even change zooplankton population dynamics. In WA high lake zooplankton populations will often be dominated by large, predatory copepods (tiny red crustaceans you can see, if you look closely) but they can be grazed off by fish and the lake will become dominated by smaller grazing species. Stocking non-reproducing, fish periodically, in low densities assures these populations aren’t disrupted.
I could go on all day (I also volunteer counting amphibians in Mt Rainier national Park and I love to talk about amphibians) but this is getting long enough. Hopefully I’ve been somewhat coherent in trying to explain why articles like the one linked above can on the one hand be quite correct, and on the other make things confusing about hatchery stocking by ignoring current best practices.
Sep 30, 2023 at 8:14 am #3790219Brian
Intersesting, all of the talk during probably the late 90s and into the 2000s indicated that plants in this area were being halted. And the fishing did declince to the point of having almost no fish in many lakes.
Gold lake was one I would go to every year, but eventually when I took two sons there in the early 2000s, the were no fish. Chetwoot kind of went the same way.
I normally bypassed the lakes on the way to those lakes.
Dollar lakes near index was similar.
It may have just been that there was a downturn in fish plants and/or survival for a period of years that coincided with the talk of no more plants, and I assumed that was the cause.
I lived on the Skykomish river and was rather active for a while in North of Falcon stuff pertaining to it. And worked with the biologists on salmon spawning studies. Salmon and steelhead addiction took up most of my free time, rehab is helping, but I live on another river now. I can catch nice sized Red Band trout right out front, along with a lot of plants.
Sep 30, 2023 at 9:10 am #3790222This is a pretty hopeful story
“We” are figuring out how to support fishermen with stocked fish and not ruin native plant and animal populations. At least we’re becoming aware of the negative effects of stocking. This needs to spread to other states than just California and Washington.
And, that hatcheries have been used to justify dams but don’t work very well.
There was another Scientific American article about a stream in Seattle that was rehabilitated and now there are salmon in it. In the middle of the city. While we’re figuring out whether dam removal is possible, we should rehabilitate every stream not blocked by a dam. Same thing in backcountry lakes and stream.
I have caught a fish before and eaten it. If I was unable to backpack maybe I should take up fishing. That seems like a good activity.
Sep 30, 2023 at 10:24 am #3790224The SA article is dated. It’s good to see there’s progress being made. I don’t take too much of a stand either way. If they’re going to drop free food from the sky, it’s my job to get it. If volunteers are packing it in, I’ll leave it there.
Many of the streams in California are seasonal. I wouldn’t count on them for food. I did find a truckload of what appeared to be tuna remnants once.
I saw a Daiwa reel ad today. It connects to your phone. $1,000.
Sep 30, 2023 at 10:26 am #3790225George, I’m not sure why you didn’t see fish in those lakes, but it would have to be attributed to bad luck, or something. I’m going to hazard a guess that you got the impression that fish stocking would be stopped because of articles around that time talking about fish stocking being stopped in North Cascades National Park. I recall hearing that impression for a couple people even though the issue was specific to NCNP.
There are two Gold Lakes in the ALW, I assume you are talking about the one above Dorothy. The fish there, and in Chetwoot are naturally reproducing and there was never a population decline in either lake. Gold was last stocked in 1969 and the cutthroat reproducing there were stocked in 1954. Chetwoot was last stocked in 1984. Both lakes are still full of small fish.
The Dollar Lakes are much more difficult to reach these days with roads gated way down at the bottom of the valley. Although they are now in the Wild Sky Wilderness that wasn’t designated until 2008 and at least ’til the early 90s the upper lake had an obvious helicopter camp. Both lakes have some very limited naturally reproducing fish and are supplemented with stocking so there would have definitely been fish there when you visited, even if they were hard to catch. I should note that between 1973 and 1986 the Dollar Lakes were not stocked. Starting in 1986 they began to be stocked regularly.
Jerry, the state if Idaho is doing a lot of very creative work trying to figure out ways to control stunted populations. I’m assuming that other western states are also using the same philosophies.
You should take up backpacking and fishing. High lake fishing is the best fishing! I mean, catching one is just a bonus to being able to fish in the midst of gorgeous scenery.
Sep 30, 2023 at 10:47 am #3790226My last trip to Dollar lakes and that area was in the early 80s, I don’t recall seeing a helicopter camp, there wasn’t really even a trail.
There were a couple of high snowfall winters and vey late ice outs that may have reduced the number of fish in Gold and Chetwoot when I last visited them. I had to wait until the end of August to take my two sons to Gold lake. Oldest son just turned 40 this month, he was about 10 at the time. That trip was a long time ago.
This discussion has me thinking of going back to visit those lakes again, but they may be crowded locations now.
Sep 30, 2023 at 10:52 am #3790227Jerry
I typed a long response to the salmon spawning situation, but it dissappeared, thought I hit submit, but poof, it’s gone.
That subject is extremely difficult, there are so many parties involved with different priorities and objectives that very little gets done.
Sep 30, 2023 at 10:57 am #3790228George, none of those lakes are all that crowded, even today. Gold and Chetwoot see a fair number of people but not huge numbers. The Dollars are probably visited less now than they were when you were there.
Sep 30, 2023 at 11:15 am #3790229Back to the subject of eating fish you catch in the backcountry. I normally just catch and release everywhere, the fish are typically small and its a hassle. And the absolute worst fish I’ve eaten in the backcountry were from Dollar Lakes. The red fleshed fish were good, but a significant number had white flesh that was terrible. Sometimes theres a difference in flavor between the two and sometimes not, but the white ones from these lakes were horrible.
I don’t keep fish anywhere though, except for lings and halibut when I’m in Alaska. The salmon and steelhead I catch are either given to the people I’m with or released.
I catch a lot of trout and walleye from the bank where I live, but I dont keep any of them. I have my drift boat on the bank year round, but rarely use it, it’s too easy to catch them without it. And my jet boat hasn’t been in the water since I moved from the Skykomish river 8 years ago.
Sep 30, 2023 at 11:26 am #3790230Red flesh vs white flesh is always an interesting topic. The color is based on diet. I can’t speak to fish from the Dollar Lakes as we didn’t keep any when we were there a few years ago. But in general most people say they prefer red fleshed fish. But, on several occasions we’ve done very unscientific blind taste tests of fish caught from the same lake and almost every time, when tasted blind, the white flesh ended up winning. All of this is based on the fish’s diet so will vary greatly based on both time and location. In high lakes red flesh generally indicates a diet with either fresh water shrimp or copepods.
Edit to add that the most likely time that high lake fish are mushy and don’t taste good is when they are in spawning shape.
Sep 30, 2023 at 11:32 am #3790231Make fish soup. The seasoning……. it’s all about the Seasoning;)
Sep 30, 2023 at 1:28 pm #3790234Sep 30, 2023 at 7:47 pm #3790241FWIW Discovered today that Cabela’s offers a 2 year no questions asked warranty on the the Bass pros telecopying rod, in Canada $10, in US probably pocket change. I stomped my rod tip last week in an early onset seniors moment, so that’s a good deal.
Oct 10, 2023 at 7:35 pm #3790799It’s prime fishing time in Ontario as the bass fatten up for the winter. I just got back from a few days fishing Ontario park backcountry.
Here’s how the Cabela’s rod and Shimano reel pack up. The telescoping rod is handy for following deer trails and the collapsing handle snugs the reel into the pack’s side pocket. I’ve been very happy with this set up. It can handle large fish without stress and the reel is very smooth.
The fish were biting the first 2 days in advance of a storm front, producing 29 largemouth in the 2 pound range, and 4 in the 3 to 4 pound range:
I managed to land a largemouth ~ 6lbs but the wise old brute spit the hook and jumped back in before I could grab my camera.
And for you ultralighters, there were pike (of a sort):
Oct 10, 2023 at 9:23 pm #3790806So, how did you cook them?
Oct 10, 2023 at 10:02 pm #3790822Wow David, I think you may have caught more sizeable Largemouth on a single trip than I have landed in my life. Well done!
Oct 11, 2023 at 2:33 pm #3790861Thanks Andrew! I was in the right place at the right time. Some might consider my lure carry heavy (4.9oz), but I try to make sure I have something for multiple options of depth, retrieve speed, horizontal vs vertical, and open vs heavy cover. It pays off. I caught something on everything as the conditions changed. This time of the year on Ontario lakes while backpacking, this is what I consider the lightest necessary lure carry: 2 spinner bait, 4 spinners, 1 pitching jig (for heavy cover), 6 tubes, 1 grub, 2 worms, 1 stick bait, 2 Texas rig hooks, 2 Texas rig slip sinkers, one splitshot, 5 swivels, extra fluoro line leader, small freezer bag as tackle box.
Jon, what do you suggest for non stick options? ;) Catch and release only while backpacking. There are many nuisance rodents and bears in these parts and I don’t want to attract them with fish smells. I wash my hands with soap when done at the last lake of the day (200′ from water etc.), and leave my rod outside my tent in the open at night with the risk some creature will eat at the handles. Its another reason I use a cheap rod on trail.
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