Bug net/ bathtub floor needed for JMT?

The Notch tarp is huge and spacious for one person. You’re idea is sound, given the dual use of the poncho and low bug pressure in August. Adding a 70 mil piece of 20×60 polycro (0.5 oz) under the poncho groundsheet would provide a modicum of protection from rocks and tree sap, and provide you a MYOG rain kilt as well. I’d also add a head net for peace of mind (I have a thing about spiders).

I’m planning on hiking the JMT July 16-30 and bringing my Deschutes tarp, polycro groundsheet and S2S pyramid bug net. I rigged mitten hooks on the corners of the polycro to hook on to the inside of the tarp to Zpacks webbing/cuben fiber pieces. Kind of creates a “ghetto” bath tub.

” polycro groundsheet and S2S pyramid bug net. I rigged mitten hooks on the corners of the polycro to hook on to the inside of the tarp to Zpacks webbing/cuben fiber pieces. Kind of creates a “ghetto” bath tub.”

I doubt your polycro will hold up for the entire JMT… unless maybe if you are speed hiking it in 5 days or so. But if you are out two weeks I bet it tears due to rocks, sticks, cones.

billy

Matt,
Mosquitoes should not be a problem in late August… especially if you take care to camp in breezy spots… I always take a head net just in case.

Your plan to take just the fly of the Notch should work. But me, I like to see the stars. So that time of year in the Sierra I take my bivy and a tarp… I bivy under the stars and only put the the tarp up if rain looks possible… even then I will sleep out and then move under the tarp if it starts raining during the night. Love those stars…

billy

One can get hit by a thunderstorm deluge in the Sierra’s, and it can happen at unpredictable times such that you don’t have time to pick out a perfect well draining spot or it can happen in the middle of the night.  I prefer having the bathtub and not having to worry about getting wet.

I bivy under the stars and only put the the tarp up if rain looks possible

+1 on the bivy and seeing the stars. This Aug 23 – Sep 13 on the JMT the plan is to cowboy camp whenever possible in a Borah Gear bug bivy with M50 foot and head box panels, with a 20×60′ 0.7 mil polycro under for sap protection. The Deschutes CF tarp will only get erected if it looks rainy. What’s nice about the wide sized BG bivy is that the 30D silnylon floor functions as a shallow bathtub if the bivy is held up with guylines from the head/food pullout loops. You get a similar effect if you stuff the bivy with enough gear and clothing. Or better yet, put your running shoes, a trekking pole or a dull stick under the outside edges. My pack is also short enough to put on its side in the head box area to keep the mesh off my face.

While the bug bivy setup is a little heavier than what you are thinking about Matt, it does a good job of keeping everything bundled up and off the ground while cowboy camping, provides 100% bug protection if zipped up the whole way, plus it has a minimalist bathtub if it’s ever needed.

I use a similar strategy as Lester described above, but chose Ti Goat’s BugBivy, which has a very effective bathtub floor.

Thanks guys for the great advise. I should have mentioned that I would like to cowboy camp as much as possible, and am hoping this trip will push me to get a more modular set up.

Kenneth, cowboy camping is one of the reasons I was looking for an alternative ground sheet/potential bug protecion.

The Notch is designed to be set up with just the inner, and in theory is great.  What happens though is it becomes tedious switching the struts from one piece to the other. And if it rains while only the inner is up, it’s not easy putting the fly up.

Lester, do you think I’ll need lower body rain protection? I plan on bringing my Montbell wind pants as my only lower body outer layer.

“…do you think I’ll need lower body rain protection?”

Only if it rains. :)
Seriously… I used to take only wind pants. But they get soaked and you can get REALLY cold if your entire lower body is wet and cold. So I started taking a zPacks cuben kilt… lighter weight than my wind pants and better rain protection down to my knees (most important part to keep your thighs dry and warm)… and it breaths. I don’t mind not taking wind pants as I rarely would need them as I hike in long pants for protection against sun and bugs and sticks, etc.
bottom line… wind pants won’t do much for you in a significant rain.
Billy

+1 on the Zpacks Kilt.  Plus you can use it for a ground tarp for items when setting up in the evening and packing up in the morning.  I have convertible pants and I’ll take the lower parts off if it get’s too rainy to keep them dry.  It doesn’t bother me at all if my calves get wet.

Even though I live in the Pacific NW as you do Matt, I rarely wear rain pants. That said, I usually carry them. Hiking in the forest in the rain in mild summer weather, wet legs and feet are fine, especially on shorter trips. I’ve never used a rain kilt, but plan to test it out this Spring for use on the JMT as a ground cloth/kilt combo.

Rain kilts are my jam. I never saw the point of rain pants with meshy trail runners. The kilt keeps me dry past my knees which keeps my core warmer, my pockets dry and my junk chafe-free. What more could a boy ask for?

Oh I also love how easy it is to take a skirt on and off, particularly with muddy shoes.

Lester, did you get your permit?  I’m planning on doing the JMT around that same time, but have not been able to secure a permit yet.  If we’re unable to get one in advance I think we’ll just do a walk-in permit.

I’ll be using a ‘mid (Locus Gear Hapi) with a mesh inner, I don’t mind the modest weight..

Don – I’ve been thinking of a very similar set up for under a Trailstar – S2S nano bug net with a polycro groundsheet, which I intend to somehow fold up around the edges to create what you call a “ghetto bathtub” (you should patent the brand name! ). Although we’re using different shelters, can you tell me how you go about creating your ‘bathtub’? I’ve got a Nano net, which has no floor – which one do you have?

Drew – we have two permits so far, hoping to secure a third tomorrow. Our backup permit (in case Yosemite permits don’t pan out) enters at Rush Creek on Aug 23ed exiting Horseshoe Meadows. We also have a permit for Pohono Trail in the Valley on the 23ed exiting at Tuolumne (Rafferty Creek) on the 26th. Tomorrow we hope to get a permit entering at Parker/Mono Pass on the 27th, which we can link up with the Pohono Trail permit to get through Yosemite.

If we get the Parker Pass permit tomorrow, then we’ll cancel the Rush Creek permit. Otherwise, we’ll cancel the Pohono Trail permit and just day hike Tuolumne to Happy Isles as a warmup hike, then enter the JMT from Rush Creek.

Myles

@munro21

I’like get some pictures up to show you but I won’t be able to do it until next weekend.

“+1 on the Zpacks Kilt. Plus you can use it for a ground tarp for items when setting up in the evening and packing up in the morning. ”

Er… if you’re careful. Keep in mind that cuben punctures quite easily. I put a hole in my rain kilt the first hour I ever used it… just by sitting on a rock.

billy

I doubt your polycro will hold up for the entire JMT… unless maybe if you are speed hiking it in 5 days or so. But if you are out two weeks I bet it tears due to rocks, sticks, cones.

People have done the entire PCT with a single polycro sheet. I bought several years ago because I thought they wouldn’t hold up. I am still using the first one after several years. Perhaps I can find better camp sites, or perhaps it is stronger than most people think, or perhaps a little of both.

“People have done the entire PCT with a single polycro sheet. I bought several years ago because I thought they wouldn’t hold up. I am still using the first one after several years. Perhaps I can find better camp sites, or perhaps it is stronger than most people think, or perhaps a little of both.”

Perhaps they/you haven’t tested it to see if it is still water proof. Just because they’ve used their groundsheet for extended hikes/months/years does not mean it is still WP.
Ground sheets take a lot of abuse. And I suspect few ever take the time to fill them with water at home to see if they are still WP.
I know people swear their cuben is WP… but when I fill my stuff sacks and ground sheet with water they leak after just a few times of use. But… you know… ignorance is bliss… perhaps I should stop testing :)

billy

Billy:  Zpacks kilts use the same material as their shelter bottoms, 1.0 oz/sq yd cuben fiber.  So either way the equipment ends up on the same material.  But I agree, any lightweight material is prone to punctures.  I’m very careful when setting up and ensuring where tarps and bottoms are clear of any sharp rocks.  Sometimes it takes me a long long time to clear an area of these rocks.  And yet my shelter still acquired a puncture I have yet to find!

With my shelter, Zpacks Duplex, I’ve been thinking about using a polycro groundsheet, but not for waterproofness, but really just to hopefully smooth out the sharpness of the rocks.  I don’t really feel the cuben fiber shelter bottoms are bullet proof in the High Sierra’s as in some locations on rock it’s impossible to remove all the minute small sharp edged rocks.

I will probably have a polycro in my resupply at MTR. The lifespan of my polycro has been mixed. Sometimes I can get 20 nights without and tears or punctures. Sometimes after the first night. I usually just clear away the most offensive rocks and sticks. I gave up trying to clear away everything because I’ve still found tears or punctures the next day. I use clear packing tape to repair them when I get home so I actually get a lot of use from my sheets. Not concerned about the .5-1 oz of added weight from the tape.

It’s important to note that there are various thicknesses of “polycryo” (cross linked poly olefin) sheets available. The thicker ones will obviously be more durable than the thinner ones.