BRS 3000t vs MSR Pocket Rocket Deluxe

[Cameron M]

I am examining if it is worth switching from the BRS 3000t to the MSR Pocket Rocket Deluxe. The BRS is a UL consensus favorite for many, and the new MSR is new consensus favorite for overall performance, but not necessarily for narrower UL parameters.

There are many variables, so I will list my priorities as they are probably similar to many: I only boil water in a 550 ml pot. A close examination reveals that after around 12 boils, the combination of a BRS stove with a canister can produce at least 16 boils and at that level of use they can cumulatively weigh less than using Esbit tablets, so I switched to mostly using the BRS. It is certainly more enjoyable than Esbit. I do not cook with the BRS, have had no support or failure issues with it, don’t care how quickly it works, how loud it is, how much it costs, etc. My only real complaint is constantly fiddling with less than satisfactory windscreen issues, and in an honest analysis the windscreen weight should be factored in (+ – 1/2 oz).

The new MSR seems impressive in every way, including wind and boiling efficiency. So, my question: after how many boils does the increased fuel efficiency of the MSR cancel out the cumulative weight of the MSR over the BRS for use for 12-16 boils? Or will its cumulative weight still never be as light as a BRS, even on a 16 boil trip? How about a large canister 32 boil trip?

These are profoundly important questions worth some consideration…

[Noah]

I would also like to know the answer to these questions. I know Ryan has a preference for the Pocket Rocket Deluxe…

[David D]

It all depends on the wind.  I average ~ 11 cups boil per oz of fuel with the PRD and a Stash pot in normal conditions.  45F and windy (10 kph): 7 cups without a wind shield but using a tree as a barrier; 28F and moderate wind: 6 cups.   The BRS wouldn’t come close in wind.

So for short trips, theoretically the BRS, for long trips the safety margin of the PRD is attractive and can limit fuel weight.

I have a Stash Ti stove (2.3 oz in bag) but don’t even bother carrying it.  I don’t want to get caught out in wind over multiple days gnawing on cold dehydrated meals and an 8 oz fuel can is not worth it.

[Jerry Adams]

if it’s not windy, the BRS3000 and PRD are about the same efficiency

if it’s windy, you really need a windscreen for either.  The PRD is a little better

The problem I’ve read about the BRS3000 is they have a high failure rate.  If you have one that hasn’t failed, then probably that’s not an issue.  Maybe if you run the BRS3000 a little slow it fails less.

I’ve used a BRS3000 a little and it worked fine.  I’ve used the PRD a lot with no problems.  The Soto Windmaster is similar – I’ve used that a lot also with no problem.

I’m just a bit concerned about BRS3000 reliability so I use PRD and Soto instead

[Jerry Adams]

stove manufacturers don’t like windscreens because they may cause the canister to overheat

touch the side of the canister where the fuel is and make sure it’s not hot

manufacturers don’t trust users to check that canister doesn’t overheat.  I can see why they might think that

[Jon Fong / Flat Cat Gear]

 

For just boiling water.

Here is my 2 cents: “fair weather camping (little wind/short duration) the BRS 3000t will work fine.  If you are concerned about wind and/or are planning a longer trip: Soto WindMaster 3-Flex with the Fire Maple Petrel pot.  Fuel consumption: about 6.5 grams to boil 500 ml of 68 F water.  In an 8 mph wind, goes up to 9 grams.  No windscreen required.  Minimal number of parts.  Weight about 8 oz.  Easy Peasy.  Again, my 2 cents.

 

[David D]

I made a mistake in my post.  Here’s the data I have:

Stash pot + PRD: ~  12 cups/oz fuel (me, 70F air, water ~ 60F, light to moderate wind; water ~ 45F, air 50F, drops to ~ 9.5); ~ 9 cups/oz (BPL test)

Jon’s Fire Maple + Soto WM3F: ~ 8.3 cups/oz (68F water), drops to ~ 6.3 cups/oz in 8mph wind

PRD + Titan: 5.5 cups/oz (BPL test 68F, weird outlier)

Standard Ti pot (no Hx), various stoves: ~ 7.5-8.5 cups/oz (MSR/youtube/gearskeptic/adventures in stoving; no wind, room temp water)

Water boiled derating with temp, standard pot (no Hx) ~ 60% 45F, 45% 28F (me, PRD, BPL PRD, others on line)

Gear skeptic did a good job testing wind impact on youtube

 

 

 

[Noah]

Thanks for the replies! I really like the Soto/Petrel combination. I have a 900 mL Evernew, but maybe I’ll need to consider the Petrel as a smaller pot option for solo trips. Any chance the PRD fits the same way the Soto fits?

Off topic, but I got an X-Boil alcohol stove. I really like the carbon felt that it uses. And maybe I can use its windscreen with my Windburner, especially given it doesn’t have piezo ignition.

[Keith W]

I have used both.  I switched from the BRS after I used it in very high wind (rock wall wouldn’t stop it) and the flame was blowing laterally and softened and bent one pot support arm, almost dumping my dinner.  I had been happy with it until then, in low wind and at moderate flame.  The Pocket Rocket Deluxe is worth the 2 ounces, as you never know the weather.  On average, I get about 20-25% better fuel efficiency with the Pocket Rocket Deluxe, which for me means a day or two more on a small canister.  As others have pointed out, the increased efficiency is greater in higher winds.  I also carried a 1 oz lighter with the BRS, but not needed with the PRD.  In either case, I always have some waterproof matches in my emergency kit.

[Jon Fong / Flat Cat Gear]

I can’t get the PRD to fit the Petrel, but I know another guy who got it to work.

[Jan Rezac]

The petrel pot can be easily modified to work with other stoves including BRS 3000 and PR deluxe. Before (with cut lines marked) and after:

 

I’m curious how it will work with my modified BRS stove…

[Jon Fong / Flat Cat Gear]

Absolutely true.  You probably have to remove a few fins as well.  I have 2 pots and the slot/fin interfaces vary by a lot.  Widening the slot would make it safer and easier to use, it is a great hack.

While it will make a lot of stove compatable, the Soto WIndMaster and the Pocket Rocket Deluxe will probably still be the best performers due to the large diameter burner head will block more of the ambient wind from coming up from the bottom.  My 2 cents.

[David D]

The Stash pot bottom sits 24mm above the PRD stove head but can be taken down to 10mm with 5 minutes at the Dremel, improving performance in wind & stabilizing the pot.

I wonder though, what’s the minimum distance a pot can sit above the stove head without starting to choke the flame? 10mm seems tight.

Jetboil cut the stabilizing notches into the stove arms but for some reason elected to keep the pot bottom 27mm above the head.   Was this just a lost opportunity or do they know something else? Edit: flame quenching.  But what’s the optimum distance?  Does getting the head closer to the pot than an inch defeat the purpose?  Considering fuel efficiency only.  CO production increases with quenching, probably why mfgs keep the pot higher.  CO can be risky in-tent at high elevations.  Edit to edit: the PRD stove is meant to work on a flat bottom pot, so this should just work even at 10mm (Friday brain)

[Jon Fong / Flat Cat Gear]

I have taken the outer shroud off of the WideSea HX pot so that the pot support arms can sit all of the way down to the pot bottom and it works fine.  Just another data point.

[HkNewman]

Pocket Rocket for UL performance in wind and reliability. If adding a windscreen, it’s more weight and more stuff.  The pocket rocket, I usually remember to use myself or pack as a windbreak and the fins on the burner does the rest.

Could see the BRS on certain trips were cooking in a shelter though, .. like the AT.

[David D]

New video from gear skeptic making a convincing argument to carry a brs and Jon’s ocelot mini, in all wind condition, over the msr prd.

Jon, nice work.

[Brad W]

Just had the BRS out this weekend. I keep it as a backup for travel. I use a Soto Amicus 90% of the time. Man is the BRS horrible. It’s got 2 things going for it-size and weight. With the lightest measurable breeze in existence, it’s sputters and struggles. Not worth adding any wind screen or things to improve it when a Amicus or similar just is better in every area.

[Jon Fong / Flat Cat Gear]

Yep,  the bare BRS 3000t is pretty much a fair weather stove: notmy first choice.  That being said, a windscreen does dramatically improve the performance in the wind.  My 2 cents.

[Brad W]

@Jon Fong  not doubting that. I saw the video. It’s impressive for sure.

[Jon Fong / Flat Cat Gear]

I would have to dig down into my notes but I think that a bare Soto Amicus was good up to about 5 mph: over twice a bare BRS 3000.

[Jerry Adams]

ahhh… another video with the gear skeptics hands

interesting how the ocelot max, which is barely wide enough to shield the flame, works so good.  There are so many possible windscreen geometries.

I am scared off by reports of the BRS3000 failures – the arms melting or whatever.  But, it works pretty good with a windscreen.  I think that if you get one that works initially and you don’t turn it up high, then it probably won’t fail.

[Brad W]

@Jerry Adams I have never seen any reports of arm failure from boiling water-which is all this stove is good for IMO. Cooking or long high heat uses is where I saw reports-very few-with failures.

[Jerry Adams]

Yeah, it’s hard to interpret failure reports on the internet to determine if it would be risky.

[Brad W]

BRS is in my ‘extreme’ peaks bagging kit and will remain there. I will suffer through the poor performance for weight savings. If it broke, I’d buy another. Every other scenario I carry a better performing stove.

[Bill in Roswell]

This makes me want to dig out my old Coleman F1 Ultralight stove. It puts out an advertised 16,400 btu. Even a real world 15,000 btu is stout. The pot stands are not far from the burner head. It def. needs a windscreen, but an HX pot would appear to work great with this little stove.

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