boots, mid boots or no boots?

[Sebastian O]

Newb here. At what carried weight do I need get boots for ankle support? My base weight is currently at 19lbs. Until I work on reducing that, I think the next few trips I will be at 25-30 lbs food and fuel included.

I was looking at the Solomon XA Pro 3D, i think they are trail runners? I tried them at a local store and they felt amazing.

http://www.salomon.com/us/product/xa-pro-3d.html

Any recommendations of light, mid boots that breathe well with hot feet and hot weather?

 

 

 

[Hoosier T]

Good article on this topic from clever hiker:

http://www.cleverhiker.com/blog/ditch-boots

I wear saucony peregrine 5 trail runners and love them.

[Justin Baker]

Just my opinion, but you don’t need boots. Your ankles are meant to twist and flex with the terrain, if you restrict that movement you will have problems. You won’t have those problems with most mid top boots because most mid top boots don’t support or restrict ankle movement. In my eyes the only purpose of a mid top is extra protection from water or snow getting in the top.

Yes the goretex version will run very hot.

The xa pros are bit stiff and clunky as running shoes, I think they are more like hiking shoes. If you want underfoot protection and support for heavy loads it would be a good shoe. The shoe has a very sturdy heel cup and rigid heel to prevent lateral twisting under the heel.

[Ken Thompson]

.

[Sebastian O]

Just to be clear, Im gonna be backpacking, not running :)

[Sebastian O]

Does the buying 1/2 size larger thing apply to trail running shoes? I would be wearing Darn Tough socks…..

Get trail runners or hiking shoes?

I do like thick soles. I dont want to feel the floor.

[Ken Thompson]

.

[Andrew Brown]

No boots.  I prefer trail runners with ample mid-sole cushion in order to avoid foot bruises. (I’m currently using Altra’s Lone Peak 2.0 and liking them.)  Like others have noted, I find mids are only really useful in snowy conditions where I’m trying to keep snow out, and even then there are often better strategies for this.

I haven’t been a fan of Salomon’s contagrip outsoles on the two pairs of their shoes that I’ve owned.  They seem to really lack the ability to grip on wet hard surfaces (i.e., wet rocks) compared to many other shoes I’ve owned.  Then again, I was probably spoiled by the superb grip of the rubber on the pair of La Sportiva C-Lite 2.0 shoes that I was using before I switched to the Salomon shoes.

If you’re worried about “weak ankles”, then you might want to take a look at this.

[Woubeir (from Europe)]

First: buy what fits The most important thing is that they fit. Fit, fit, fit.

Then: if you never wore trailrunners for backpacking, take lots of time to adjust. It tool me months, even years before I got enough confidence to use them for every walking and backpacking activity (with loads up to at least 40 lbs.). For heavier loads, I always use walking poles.

[Link .]

.

[John Vance]

I use mids and trail runners.  The lightest mids can be lighter than the heavier runners but proper fit is first and foremost regardless of style.  I am currently using Adidas, Terra X mids and Terra R runners.  Great fit and traction with the Continental soles and they appear to be wearing better than anything else I have owned since the venerable Vibram Yellow label.

[George F]

I like low cut hiking shoes over trail runners, the more solid soles and lug pattern work well for me. This season I am in Oboz Sawtooths and really like them but it really is all about fit. Try on as many makes as you can, when you find the right one you should have an “oh yeah” moment when you put them on.

[Rob P]

I like really light weight mids, but will wear low cuts on occasion.  I just like ankle coverage, I guess.  I don’t need ankle support….a lot of times I don’t tie them all the way to the top but for some reason I like the ankle coverage.  Maybe it comes from being used to basketball shoes when I used to play a lot.

Some of my hiking pants cinch around the bottom, and I get a better seal with mid cuts.

[Nick D]

+1 on trail runners. I use Altra Lone Peak 2.5 and LOVE them. Used the XA Pros a few years back and I almost always lost a pinkie toe nail! They were way too narrow for me (and I always 1/2 size up with midweight wool socks).

 

Also, be careful about talking yourself into “needing” boots for support. I did this a few years back. I bought at least 8 brands/models (thank god for free return shipping) and very quickly found out that boots actually MAKE MY FEET HURT! A stiff shank/plate can actually tax your feet more because they fighting it and your feet aren’t able to flex, contort, or splay naturally. Usually this is something you won’t notice until about 20-30 minutes in the boots either. Had I been on the trail, I would have turned back. Seems counter intuitive but it’s something to think about.

Good luck.

[Sebastian O]

Welp, i went to REI and tried Salomons XA Pro 3D lows, Keen Voyager lows, and a few others. My Vasque Inhalers mid boots are waaaay lighter than some I tried. Im sick of comparing and shopping. Gonna keep em. :)

[Dean F.]

Doing away with boots in favor of trail runners or hiking shoes is a sort of jihad topic here on BPL.  So EVERYONE will tell you to ditch the boots.

 

That said, I have done the trail runners thing and I have drunk the Kool-Aid.  They’re so much more comfortable!  I even wear shoes instead of boots when my loads get up to 50 pounds, now.  The only time I wear boots nowadays is in the winter, so that the high tops help me to keep my feet dry in deep snow.

[David Thomas]

Like KT said, “Unless you are talking plastic ski boots ankle support is a myth.”

If you can flex your ankle enough to walk on a slope, to even take a normal step, you can flex it enough to injury it.  An Alpine ski boot, a lower-leg cast, or being in full traction in a hospital bed does protect your ankle, but they prevent hiking.

Consider that over a month, you’ll walk hundreds of miles around town, in stores, around your yard, in playgrounds, doing yoga, carrying groceries, a child or two, a load of firewood, etc, in running shoes or less.  Then, suddenly, when the scenery gets better, people think they need this imaginary “ankle support”.  And while it’s their choice, here are a few common downsides:

• cost,
• total weight,
• hotter in the Summer,
• MUCH more prone to blisters in heavier, less accommodating shoes,
• weight on your swinging feet (worth 7 times that weight on your back),
• less nimble on your feet, and
• longer to dry, therefore more susceptible to athlete’s foot.

Sure, if there is snow, then you want taller boots or gaiters (gaiters are much lighter), and probably insulated boots.  When using an axe or chainsaw, I go with heavier footwear, usually full-grain leather.  On job sites, I’m required to wear steel-toed boots.  But for 35 years, since Nike released their low-cut “Lava Dome” in1981, I’ve used low-cut hiking shoes for trail trips over 20 miles in a day.  Under 20 miles/day, for me, and running shoes work fine.  And for any mileage around town.   But for high mileage on rough trails, I like a slightly stiffer sole – not for ankle protection, but so the bottom of my foot isn’t wrapped around so many rocks and roots in the trail hundreds of times.  Pre-1981, I’d MYOG a running shoe into a low-cut hiker by slipping in some 1/8″ plywood under the insole, but now you can get very nice low-cut trail shoes right off the shelf.  My first test of them is to grab the toe box and the heel and twist the shoe.  I can twist a trail shoe 30-50 degrees.  I can twist a running shoe 90-180 degrees.

Then I try on a pair and get on their ramp (only buy shoes at a real outdoor store that has a carpeted ramp sloped about 30 degrees for this test) and try to jam my toes into the front of the toe box, if my toes touch, the shoes are too short.  Then I walk around the store A LOT, feeling for excessive (more than 1/4″) of heel lift.  If so, it is too large for me.  For some makes and models, you won’t past both tests – their concept of the human foot doesn’t agree with your reality.  For me, Merrill uses a pattern that fits my feet.  There will be a size in which my toes don’t touch, AND my heel doesn’t lift.  But before trying more shoes of the SAME brand, I’d suggest trying all the DIFFERENT brands because there are often commonalities (good and bad) across the company’s entire line of shoes.

And then, when you find a shoe you like, stock up.  Look for it, or a close relative, to show up on Sierra Trading Post, etc and get it for 40 to 50 cents on the dollar.

[Nick Gatel]

And then, when you find a shoe you like, stock up. Look for it, or a close relative, to show up on Sierra Trading Post, etc and get it for 40 to 50 cents on the dollar.

Because…

Any great piece of gear gets replaced by a “new and improved model” — usually meaning the manufacturer has ruined a good thing.

 

[Roger Caffin]

Reread what Dave T wrote.
I have’nt owned any boots for 20+ years 9apart from XC ski boots).

Cheers

[Kris]

Sebastian, I’m going to provide you with a dissenting opinion.  Stating that ankle support is a myth is incorrect.

Likely, a trail runner will suit your purposes.  However, suggestions that boots do not provide ankle support are contrary to both my experience and my training, and I think could potentially lead to injury.

Since I hold the minority position here, I’ll go into some detail about my background.  I’m a Special Forces Medical Sergeant (“18D”).  There is no civilian equivalent but Physician’s Assistant (“PA”) is typically used as the basis for comparison.  An 18D’s scope of practice is actually wider than that of any other healthcare practitioner (everything from anesthesia to veterinary medicine) but more than anything else we deal with gun shot wounds, blast injuries, and sports injuries – lots and lots of sports injuries.  From the Rockies to the Hindu Kush, I have treated more ankle injuries than I can count.

It’s probably also worth explaining footwear decisions in Special Forces.  I suspect that we are the most thorough and extensive gear testers on the planet.  There are numerous reasons for this but significantly this is related to the large amount of gear we are given.  Unlike the conventional forces, Special Operations Forces have great freedom in using what they want rather than what they are told to use.  Plus, the equipment budget is quite different.  And on top of that, gear manufacturers send us a lot of stuff for free (I suspect so that the manufacturer can market with “as issued to Special Forces”).  The end result is that thousands of gear testers are evaluating an enormous variety of gear in extreme conditions.  Typically, this results in a consensus that most will adopt.  However, footwear is the exception.  I don’t think that it would be an exaggeration to say that no other gear choice is as varied as is what boot or trail runner to use.  Footwear is very much a personal preference and no doubt related to differences in the shapes of feet.  The takeaway point here is that nothing is as important as individual fit.

Boots do provide ankle support.  However, you might not require that support.  There are multiple causes of ankle instability but if you do not have a history of ankle injuries, then you likely do not need the support of a boot.  Base your decision on terrain.  The terrain you are traversing will be a more significant factor than your pack weight.  If you are sticking to trails (relatively flat surfaces) then a trail runner will probably work quite well.  However, if you might be on uneven terrain (like descending a rocky slope), then a boot can prevent an ankle injury and is a better choice.

My favorite boot is the Under Armour Alegent.  It’s light and durable.  I think I have close to a thousand miles of very rocky terrain on a pair of Alegents now.  They dry quickly and while I can’t claim to have actually tested this – I don’t believe that a trail runner would dry more quickly.  I use mine in temperatures north of 100 and south of 30 by using different thicknesses of socks.  Just like you mentioned, I get my boots 1/2 size larger and use Darn Tough socks.

Take this for what it’s worth.  Just one opinion.

Kris

[Paul S.]

On rocky and uneven terrain I find boots help keep your footwear more secure.

E.G. A low top shoe with a stiff sole and a tall stack height can twist easily on rocks. Same shoe but with upper laces will prevent some twisting and give you a bit more control. I prefer light and flexible shoes so I mostly avoid the rolling risk that a stiffer and taller shoe has.

[David Thomas]

In talus, I HATE banging my ankle on the side of a boulder.  A mid- or full-height boot in those conditions makes sense to me.

While full boots, usually have deeper lugs in the sole and that helps in snow and on some kinds of trails, the composition of the rubber is very important.  Hard, low-friction soles will slip easily, regardless of the upper.  Sticky rubber will give you secure footing in a low-cut, a boot, or a climbing shoe.  I’ve found a lot of variation in how well different low-cut hiking shoes grip on rock and in snow/ice.  Some of our regular trail-runner posters have had very helpful thoughts on makes and models in that regard.

[Jim Colten]

Myself, I’d refrain from saying that boot offer NO support.  But I was certain for years that I needed boots … until I tried trail runners.  Since 2008 the only time I wear a boot is twice a year on trail maintenance weekends where my feet and lower legs are almost sure to take a beating … sometimes in the winter (below 0F).  The only foot issue I’ve had in that time was from lots of winter boot walking a year ago.

While I’m not a Ray Jardine fan I do follow one of his suggestions … train with the same kind of shoes you’ll wear backpacking and seek out uneven terrain to walk on … step in every depression and walk on every side hill you find.    Feet, just like the rest of our bodies grow stronger with use.

[Sebastian O]

Thank you all and Kris. Very educational.

[Larry De La Briandais]

Everyone is different, and that is very apparent when choosing footwear.  I always wear boots when hiking.  Always.  There are many reasons, but that is what works for me.  When I took my wife backpacking I suggested that she use trail runners.  She was sure that she needed boots, that’s what real backpackers wear.  And that’s what I would be wearing.  So, I left my computer open to a discussion of boot vrs trail runners on this site.  She chose trail runners and will probably never go back to boots.  They work better for her.  She only wears shoes when necessary, and with the exception of fashion choices she tends toward the most minimal shoe that works.  It’s what works for her.  I on the other had prefer high top shoes for everyday wear even though I no longer use them for everyday wear.  And it is always boots when hiking for me.

 

[Author]

Posts