Big News! BPL Gear Swap Changes!!!

[Matthew / BPL]

Gear Swap has been a source of frustration for a while. We hear that clearly, and I’m excited to share that we’re planning to fix it and outline what comes next. We are planning to move Gear Swap back into the Forums in the New Year! I can’t commit to an exact date yet, but it will likely be within the next few weeks.

The old-timers know how this works, but here is a brief rundown for newer folks. Members will be able to sell gear by going to the Gear Swap Forum and starting a new thread with the item in the title – for example, WTS: MLD Silpoly Monk Tarp. You then describe the condition of the item, how you will accept payment, and how you will ship it. Most people will include photos. Other members respond to the thread with questions or an “I’ll take it!” The conversation then moves to Private Messages for payment and shipping details.

Before this move happens, we’d like community input: What should Gear Swap policies look like once it’s back in the Forums? Here is a starting point:

Gear Swap Guidelines v1.0

1. Backpacking-related items only.
2. No firearms.
3. Do not sell stolen, counterfeit, or otherwise illegal items.
4. No auctions or “highest bidder” listings.
5. For Sale postings may not include links or references to external classified listings.
6. Do not make multiple posts for the same item.
7. Please begin thread titles with WTS, WTB, or WTT (Want To Sell, Want To Buy, Want To Trade).
8. Bumping WTS listings requires a 5% price reduction.
9. WTB or WTT listings may be bumped every _____ (two weeks? one month? weekly?).
10. Gear Swap listings will be automatically removed after 90 days as part of routine system maintenance.
11. Use extreme caution when sellers require PayPal Friends & Family, as it limits buyer protection.
12. Backpacking Light does not mediate disputes between buyers and sellers, though fact-based experiences may be shared for the benefit of the community.
13. Please append SOLD to the thread title when an item has sold. Oops, members won’t be able to do this because of the short editing window.

Please share your thoughts, suggestions, or anything we might be overlooking as we get Gear Swap rolling in the Forums again.

[Monte Masterson]

Rule number 8 is important and it should require at least a 10% price reduction to bump instead of 5%….at least if it’s going to make the reply go to the top of Recent Forum Topics page again like back in the old days. If that’s the case moderators will have to be vigilant or else sellers will keep the Topics page moving too fast, constantly placing their item back at the top for prime visibility. In BPL’s Golden Age it was a problem.

Nevertheless, I’m glad to see Gear Swap become a centerpiece again because it’s one of the main reasons members pony up $15 a year. GS was more dynamic and interactive before and that allowed for more sales, but the habitual bumpers who want to play nickel and dime have to be reined in. If they can’t drop an item’s price by 10% they’re not realistic about selling.

[Ryan Jordan]

if it’s going to make the reply go to the top of Recent Forum Topics again

Before we moved GS out of the forums last time, we removed all GS posts from the Recent Topics page. I suspect that nobody wants them back in that feed again.

[Matthew / BPL]

100% agree that Gear Swap should not show on Recent Forum Topics.

Let’s hear some more votes about what it costs to bump the thread. 5%? 10%?

[Bill Budney]

If a used item isn’t selling because of its price, that price is often unrealistic. There’s no point in putting it at the top of the list with a tiny adjustment. Leave it where it is in the list.

A far more important thing is to be able to filter for UNSOLD (WTS) items. That feature never worked as long as I’ve been here, and it made Gear Trade not worth using unless really desperate (or very bored).

If the plan is to remove filters entirely, then I could understand the desire from the code POV, but not from the user POV.

[JCH]

Agree 10% price drop to bump WTS listings (#8).  Could be a moderation challenge unless an automated rule can be implemented.

I would allow bumping once every 7 days (#9)…in conjunction with implementing the following…

Marking items as sold (#13) – it’s hard to enforce a seller’s diligence without a negative consequence.  Perhaps a listing is deleted after some period of inactivity? Example – item is listed for sale, maybe has a few replies, but the original listing remains unedited for some period of time (6 weeks?). Deleted!

Listings properly noted as sold (#13) should be retained for reference.  Perhaps deleted after 2-3 years (#10)?  Sold item history is very valuable when gauging the market and setting a price for your listing.

Bill Budney mentions the removal of filters…if so, implementation of a good search feature could mitigate.

[Dan]

Old listings can be helpful as records of fair selling prices. I wouldn’t delete them.

[Matthew / BPL]

Thank you for your thoughts so far!

Some thoughts:

• Deleting old listings after 90 days is a database maintenance issue. We have to do that.
• 10% price drop to bump an item sounds good to me. Let’s hear more opinions please.
• I don’t think there is an enforcement method for not marking posts sold. It seems helpful if people do it but it will not happen with 100% fidelity.
• I don’t think filtering is going to happen in the Forums.

[Jon Fong / Flat Cat Gear]

Rather than having BPL manage some of these issues, it may be fine to encourage/develop a culture of Gear Swap Users to provide reminder to people (as long as it stays within the site’s guidelines). If an item is Sold and not updated, users can PM or nudge the seller to make the change. It seems like frequent users could take some of the burden off of BPL staff. My 2 cents.

[Ryan Jordan]

Regarding filters: what sorts of filters do you find are the most valuable?

[Bill Budney]

I would like to be able to see only active WTS (unsold) items.

Currently, there are too many WTB and closed/sold listings. It makes searching tedious.

Keyword search/filtering would be nice, too, if you can implement it.

[Marcus]

Great Idea. The gear forums are why I originally joined and the current gear swap interface is bad.

Agreed 10% or more to bump

Ideally listings stay longer than 90 days but if that’s not feasible it us what it is. A historical record of sales is useful to price and compare.

Filtering Open swaps would be helpful. Or at minimum a search function with Gear forum only option.

Does this mean the Original Post will be editable for the entire 90 day window? This will be key. Limiting the edit window means you have to look at the last post instead of the first to determine if it’s open.

Looking forward to this!

[David Thomas]

The first thing that jumped out at me is that the 5% to bump is too minimal.  10% feels like the sweet spot.

While I appreciate the *potential* value of researching successful sales prices in the future, 1) won’t be done for database reasons, 2) we’re too small and incestuous a group to really arrive at truly market prices, 3) that’s what eBay is for.  I do use eBay in that way (“Completed auctions”) for some items, including outdoor gear.  They’ve got vastly more sellers and buyers (and database managers) than BPL ever will.

While a rating system like eBay’s (“96%, 23/24 satisfied buyers”) would be lovely, that’s WAY too much work to set up and if I think I want an item from someone, it’s easy enough to check their history on GS and the forums.  (If it’s too good to be true and it’s their first post, it’s likely a scam, but the cost to join would dissuade almost all scammers).  I’d assume with my 14 years and 18,000 posts on the forum, buyers or sellers would be comfortable dealing with me.

Being in Alaska makes the shipping cost a hurdle / prohibitive in most cases (which is not BPL’s fault).  The one time I used GS was to save Manfred’s butt when his tent failed in the middle of a month-long Brooks Range trip.  The manufacturer had no stock to ship, but someone on GS did and I bought it from them and arranged the shipping details.

[Matthew / BPL]

Does this mean the Original Post will be editable for the entire 90 day window? This will be key. Limiting the edit window means you have to look at the last post instead of the first to determine if it’s open.

We keep the editing window pretty short in the Forums on BPL. Leaving it open for longer leaves the site vulnerable. The original post will only be editable for the standard window (I think it’s 15 minutes?). Now that I am typing this I realize that means people cannot append SOLD onto the thread title like I mentioned above. Whoops!

[Matthew / BPL]

No promises but we’d like to keep everyone in the loop. Things are moving quickly. We have Gear Swap running on a testing server and we have implemented some nice features. Everything seems to be testing very well so far!

[Ryan Jordan]

We need a few Gear Swapping volunteers to test the functionality of the new Gear Swap on one of our staging sites. I’ll take the first 3 volunteers for now, please email us directly at publisher@backpackinglight.com if you’re interested. Other than some final testing, we are pretty close to making this transition to the production site.

[Lawrence]

I believe a 10% is too much, it would cause Sellers to price items higher. Would like to have shipping based on zip codes and not part of the selling price. We could calculate shipping when a Buyer inquires.

[Matthew / BPL]

I hear you, Lawrence. I think we are going with 10% for now but we can make changes to the guidelines  in the future.

Many members include shipping in their prices but others choose to quote shipping afterwords based on zip code like you mention. Sellers are welcome to use whatever shipping terms they choose.

[Ryan Jordan]

We will migrate to the new forum-based Gear Swap this morning – how the transition will work:

1. New listings will no longer be allowed in the old Gear Swap – the new listing form will be deactivated (this is done). Existing listings may still be managed, but we’ll have to sunset those eventually. My suggestion for now is to close your existing listing at the old Gear Swap and add it as a new listing in the new Gear Swap forum.
2. We’ll install and test the new Gear Swap forum (starting this process in a few minutes, should take an hour or so).
3. I’ll post back here when the new Gear Swap is up and running.

[Chilly E]

Can you make listings searchable? It’s weird that you can’t.

[Anthony Weston]

So if something has not sold in 90 days, can you add it back for another 90 days? For example a winter sleeping bag might sell in June but if it doesn’t it may have a better chance if listed again in Oct.

[Matthew / BPL]

Yes! You are welcome to repost after the 90 day window has passed.

[Ryan Jordan]

OK, the new Gear Swap Forum is up and running:

It’s listed in the Commerce section in the Forum Index:

Please let us know if you have any questions or run into any issues.

[Ryan Jordan]

Also, known issue: Gear Swap listings are appearing in the Recent Forum Topics page, but that is temporary – it’s on our list of things to complete by the end of today to exclude Gear Swap listings from the Recent Forum Topics feed.

[Ryan Jordan]

Also note that we have changed the editing window for new listings (first post) to 60 minutes.

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