Besides Weight, What Are Your Gear No-Nos?

With Geoff.
Cheers

Too much water. That’s why I brought a filter!

>Bad bourbon

>cheap scotch

These are no-no’s even off the trail.   If you have to mix it, you shouldn’t be drinking it.  Dont get me started on Jello shots…

Brightly-colored clothing, packs, and food bags for hanging. I like to be unobtrusive in the wilderness.

But small stuff, such as whistles and ditty bags should be bright colors. If they’re black or olive drab, you put ’em down and you lose ’em. They’re normally inside something else, so they’re not loud on the trail.

Eric and Daniel (or anyone else) – I’m just curious – what is the case against Ti utensils and pots? Is it just that aluminum and plastic are slightly lighter, or is there some other drawback to the material I’m not aware of?

Against Ti relative to Al:
Cost is higher
Density is higher, but as Ti is much stronger the walls are much thinner and pot mass is very similar
Heat conductivity is lower – possible hot spots, but since the material is much thinner it does not seem to matter in practice

For Ti rel to Al
Strength is much higher, so you don’t get dents and dings
Life is much longer

You don’t use plastic for pots anyhow.
I don’t use Ti for cutlery – it is not hard enough for a good knife (try Victorinox), and a plastic spoon (try GSI) is much nicer
I don’t use Ti for cups: metal is notorious for burning your lips
I don’t use Ti for plates for a similar reason, and plastic is nicer

My 2c
Cheers

I like Ti, because it is basically a buy once ordeal.  Don’t like the fact that basically all Ti comes from China and I am starting to look for more ways to support domestic suppliers if possible. I don’t see the drawbacks Roger lists as problems fit me, sine 1) I don’t use cutlery on trail, 2) I like the polished bowl of my Ti spoon. I don’t like plastic and Al as they are soft and scratch easily.

I try to never say never but generally I try to avoid gear that can fail.

Water filters can clog or freeze – use drops

Inflatable pads can pop or leak – use foam

Canister stoves can break (and the cans are heavy) – use esbit

The fewer moving parts the better.

Noise makers stay at home

Andrew B: I don’t see a Daniel in this thread so I assume you meant me.

Cons to Ti vs. Al or plastic: (1) virtually all Ti products come from China and most of the ore from Russia, (2) Ti essentially cannot be recycled, (3) Ti is very expensive, (4) Ti mugs and utensils are very heavy compared to plastic (like 13 gm for a “long” handle spoon vs. 3 gm for biodegradable plastic spoon with 1 cm shorter handle), (5) Ti pots don’t distribute heat well so they are inefficient and lead to burned spots of food, (6) Ti takes much more energy to produce and form (as much as 100X more than recycled aluminum and 3X more than bauxite ore), and (7) I’ve never had an aluminum pot or mug, or plastic mug or utensil, wear out or be damaged beyond usable so I don’t see any advantage in the greater durability of Ti.

Titanium can be recycled, like most other metals. Whether it is done is a matter of economics. There are plenty of companies doing it around the world, as a Search will show. Brass recycling is also a thriving business.

That most Ti gear comes from China is also a matter of economics, or perhaps a demand for only the very cheapest source. The set-up costs for forming Ti are not trivial, but if Chinese companies can do it, why not others?

My 2c
Cheers

Theoretically yes, but realistically titanium cannot be recycled by an average/normal consumer. I wish it were otherwise, but neither municipal garbage/recycling collectors nor typical recycling centers will take it. There are a couple titanium recyclers here in the San Francisco Bay Area, but the one closest to me is 25 miles away. How many people are willing to make a long drive to recycle one titanium mug or such? And would it even make sense, given the fuel/energy that would be required to get there and back, which might exceed the energy saved by recycling that small bit of titanium? Or similarly, package the material, drive to a shipping company like UPS or FedEx or USPS, and have it shipped to one of those companies around the world that will take it?

All the titanium recyclers I have been able to find are geared towards taking scrap from manufacturers and producers. Current price paid for titanium scrap is about $0.25/pound, so very few will be willing to send a 3-4 ounce mug to be recycled when the cost of shipping is orders of magnitude greater than the payment they will receive. A few will, but for the general public it’s a non-starter.

Regarding China, for me the issue is more than the cheapest price. The US has a huge trade deficit with China, so huge that it threatens our economic future. And China has made it very clear that they want to crush us economically and now militarialy too. I don’t want a single one of my dollars going towards construction of another Chinese naval vessel, or towards the AI they are developing to monitor every movement of every citizen, etc.

Is the US government willing to assist with fostering domestic industry, including recycling?

Cheers

who recycles their Ti stuff? It lasts basically forever – if you don’t like it, you just sell it second-hand – unless a bear eats it.

To stay on topic – I won’t take paracord anymore because I discovered Zing-it and Amsteel.

who recycles their Ti stuff? It lasts basically forever
Yeah, well, … true.

Cheers

Anything eating/drinking utensil of mine that interacts with boiling water is Ti. It’s a simple matter to get Japanese made Ti products from Montbell or Snowpeak. Of the 10 or so Ti items I have, all but one are Japanese made.

Just not that hard.

Isn’t evernew Japanese ti?

I also have Snow Peak- the raw material is still likely sourced from China, so it doesn’t really get around that issue.

likely sourced from China

But you don’t know… regardless, it’s a pole vaulting mouse-turd issue.

I’d still rather have boiling water in contact with Ti (even Chinese Ti) than plastic. And I guarantee I’d rather have boiling water in contact with Chinese Ti than Chinese plastic!

Isn’t evernew Japanese ti?

Yes.

Marmot Precip rain jackets. carbon trekking poles, sporks, super light camp shovels that fell like they’re going to cut your hand open when you’re digging a cat hole (I like the Vargo Dig Dig Tool), freezer bag cooking, Nalgene water bottles, iodine water treatment, packs with very little padding on straps, thick toilet paper (I like Scott because you’ll end up using less), any cotton apparel, titanium wind shields (cut one from extra large disposable aluminum baking pans…half the weight of ti and cheap), sleep pads lighter than 30d nylon, any shelter or clothes that aren’t a stealthy earth tone color.

But you don’t know… regardless, it’s a pole vaulting mouse-turd issue.

Absolutely, I agree. I still buy it for the same reasons you mention.

It’s a simple matter to get Japanese made Ti products from Montbell or Snowpeak. 

Well, Japanese BRANDED anyhow.

Cheers

Well, Japanese BRANDED anyhow.

Nope. “MADE IN JAPAN.”

Would “made in Japan” mean that the metal was sourced from Japan? I imagine not… Is this a real threat? I mean, Japanese metal is nice, and I would love an Hatori Hanzo sword, but are are the onion rings I just ate probably worse for me then cooking in my ti pot my entire life?  Just a thought on risk assessment…