Appreciate help configuring EE Quilt (never ordered before)

[Ethan A.]

Appreciate your help configuring an EE quilt as I haven’t ordered one before. The 20% EE sale is quite compelling as the Ms. and I need to replace one 20F down quilt and we wanted to pick up 50F Apex quilts for summer use and as an overquilt for cold conditions.

These quilts would be primarily for 3 season / summer in the NE and West Coast, winter on the West Coast and milder winter  in the NE (for Northeast cold winter conditions with a 20F down quilt and 50F Apex we’d need to sleep in insulation layers). Lately NE winter has been far milder than what I grew up with.

I’m 6 ft 172 lbs 41 in. chest and a side sleeper, she’s 5 ft 6 in. 125 lbs and a side and back sleeper, both slim athletic build. I tend to go to sleep warm and get colder toward morning, she tends to feel colder at the start of the night. While we may try a 3 season double quilt in the future, it’s nice to be able to configure our own quilts exactly the way we want. Currently use a NeoAir Xtherm and Xlite, though looking to try a more comfortable pad even if it’s a bit lower R value.

1) For the 20F down quilt, thinking of a Revelation (so we can open into a blanket in mild weather), 850 fill, 10d fabrics inside and out, with a bright inside color like red for signaling if ever needed and a dark outside color like black for quicker drying in sun. Any changes you’d suggest?

2) Draft collar – thinking of it for the 20F down quilt for about 1 oz extra. Would you suggest it?

3) For her, would you suggest getting a 10F down quilt instead of 20F?

4) For the down quilt for my size would you go with Regular Wide or Regular X-Wide? For the Ms. would you suggest a Short-Wide so that she has less air space to heat up or Regular Wide?

5) For the Apex quilts, thinking of Regular Wide for me and Short Wide for her. Should we go for longer to best cover the 20F down quilt?

6) Neck slit for 50F Apex quilt? I don’t know if EE would do this for us, but it would be great to get a neck slit in the center to be able to throw it on in camp in the evenings or in the morning. Anyone ever order this feature from EE?

 

 

[Iago Vazquez]

My personal preferences below:

1. My body oils stain fabrics, particularly around my face. I prefer the darker side on the inside of the quilt. If you think it makes a difference in drying, then you can always flip the quilt inside out.
2. I would absolutely recommend a draft collar on any quilt used below freezing temps sleeping on the ground. On hammocks, not so necessary.
3. On average, the EN rating indicate that you need about 10F of extra warmth for the average female. So yes, I would say get her a 10F and a 40F to match your 20F and 50F. Or see comments below.
4. I recommend getting the summer quilt one size larger in length and width for better extreme temperature coverage. And being the lighter quilt, the weight penalty is not as big.
5. See 4.
6. Haven’t ordered it, but I like the idea.

Personally, I prefer a 40F revelation to open and drape over in winter (I would get 30F for my wife). In my opinion 50F gives very little summer usability. And a 20F Enigma, as I have never needed to open any footbox when temps are in the 30F or below, which is when I would take this quilt. In fact, even when temps are 40-60f I just stick my feet out and don’t bother with opening the footbox. It’s nice to have it closed to just transition the leg in later. But the open quilts make it easier to drape over sleeping bags and other quilts.

If I need to regulate, I will stick my whole leg out or take off my socks. If it’s freezing or below, I want that footbox as secure as possible at those temps.

[Dan]

I regret buying the one with the zippered footbox. I’ve never opened it up and it gets a little drafty.

[Ethan A.]

Thanks Iago and Dan for the helpful advice. Going with a 3 season down Enigma with a closed footbox would certainly be warmer (we had some nights that were so hot and humid in NE summer, that we were in the mindset of being able to open up. But we could use the lighter Revelation Apex quilt in summer non-alpine conditions).

Only reason we thought of the brighter red side on the inside is for stealth camping. Perhaps a very saturated color like red wouldn’t show stains as easily. As long as there’s one dark side it will help speed drying to face that side to the sun.

For the down quilt length, EE gives a size range. Would you recommend a Regular for me at 6 ft tall and a side sleeper, and a Short for her at 5 ft 6 in. tall and a side and back sleeper?

For down quilt width, what do you recommend?

For summer we could go with the Revelation 40F Apex and for her a 30F Apex. If we can get the head slits she’ll love wearing it in the morning.

Going with 950 down fill instead of 850 would only save 2 oz. Not sure it’s worth it.

So right now:

-Enigma 850 with draft collar, 20F for me, 10F for her, not sure about length and width yet

-Revelation Apex 40F for me, 30F for her, preferably with center neck slit, sized wider and longer than the down quilts.

[Dan]

I don’t know how helpful my sizing will be for you because I am between the two of you in size, 5’9″/155. But I have the wide, not regular and not xwide, and it is more than wide enough even to wrap totally around me on a cold night. I wanted plenty of room because I am a side sleeper and I put an inflatable pillow between my knees to help with lower back problems. Sorry for the TMI.

And yes, you should probably take my comment about warmth with a grain of salt, since it sounds like we camp in somewhat different conditions. I am always camping in alpine conditions in Colorado, so even in mid-summer there’s virtually never an issue of being too warm at night.

[Jason]

I have had a couple EE quilts, covering similar ranges to what you guys are looking for (20* xwide/long/down, 40* wide/long/apex). I have layered them for winter trips, although I can’t remember which one I put on top (probably the down one because it’s so much larger).

I found their formulas for sizing the width and length pretty accurate (I’m a bigger guy and a side sleeper, it pointed me toward xwide), I definitely have less draft issues with the 20 vs the 40.

I went with orange for the inside of my 20* for signaling purposes, zero regrets there. Draft collars weren’t an option when I ordered, but I would have added that on. I don’t mind cinching things up tight, but some extra room would be nice. I went with 20d outer and 10d inner, durability is important to me with kids and a dog in the mix.

I think my biggest mistake in ordering was going with 20/40 instead of 10/30. I found myself pushing the comfort limits of both, mostly trying to carry the lightest option. They are pretty true to rating (for me at least), but close to the bottom you really start to feel mistakes in your setup (drafts when you roll over, gaps from not cinching the neck enough, etc). If your wallet is already out I’d add 10* of buffer to each.

[Jon Fong / Flat Cat Gear]

When buying a quilt, don’t forget to review your sleeping pad R values as it really is a system.  I am a warm sleeping so I use a regular NeoAir even below freezing.  My wife gets cold so she has an X-Therm, even in the summer.  My 2 cents.

[Piney]

Keep in mind that the EE 850 fill is duck down, while the 950 is goose down. Every duck down bag or quilt I’ve laid eyes on (including several I’ve owned and regardless of nominal fill power) had really sad looking loft. I own an older Stoic Somnus bag with 800 goose down that was stored fully compressed for two years – it lofts WAY better than any brand new duck down bag/quilt I’ve seen. With that in mind the 950 fill would be the only option I’d personally consider on an EE quilt.

Generally speaking, ordering a quilt too narrow is probably the biggest mistake people make. It is a good rule of thumb to size up in width. EE quilt measurements are taken unstuffed, so actual width is 4-6″ narrower than spec’d.

Re. Revelation vs. Enigma, I’ve seen a LOT of comments on various forums saying that the user would order a closed footbox if they had the option to do it over. My personal experience is in line with this – my first quilt was an EE Revelation and I didn’t find the footbox to be warm at all.

 

 

[Matthew / BPL]

I like the simplicity of a sewn footbox and I’ve never found it problematic to slide my feet out if I’m too warm. I have a thin Apex quilt I never use and that has an open footbox (and a poncho slot). I suppose an open footbox makes sense in that application.

My quilt is the only piece of gear from 2014 that I’m still using. I’m glad I purchased it with whatever the highest fill power Hammock Gear offered at the time (850? 900? I don’t remember). When I replace it some day, I will make that same decision.

I ordered my quilt as wide as I could get it. I have a 44” chest and sleep on my side. I have never felt the need to use straps or closures. I don’t have problems with air leaks.

My $.02: Sewn footbox. Go wide. Go with the best down they offer. YMMV

[Monte Masterson]

Remember that Apex quilts are much much bulkier than down. A 50* synthetic quilt isn’t bad and a 40* isn’t horrible, but a 30* Apex and lower quilt is gigantic. I bought an MLD Spirit 28 XL some years ago and immediately sold it because of its size. You need to up your pack volume considerably when carrying such a lower temp rated Apex quilt.

And Piney is absolutely right about duck down being inferior. There are threads here on BPL where posters try to say there’s really not much difference between duck and goose, but don’t believe it. There’s a reason why duck down on average is about 1/2 the price of quality 850 and above goose down…it’s not as good!

EE doesn’t do poncho head slots, at least as far as I know. That’s why I’d go with an MLD Spirit for an Apex quilt even if it’s considerably more expensive. A head slot is an absolute must for me in a 50* or 40* (48* and 38* MLD) quilt.

[Ethan A.]

Big thanks Dan, Jason, Jon, Piney, Matt and Monte for the super helpful tips. I’m glad to see that despite inflation, 2 cents on BPL is often worth 10,000X that. 

And Dan that’s well below any TMI threshold and it helps others who suffer the same (I was just about to share two amazing back books my wife used to great effect which are the equivalent of How to Fix Your Feet).

Where we are now:

-Enigma 950 (goose down), draft collar, Wide, 10F for her and me. Black on one side, orange or red on other. 10d both sides but I’ll check the weight hit if the outside is 20d. Would prefer the neck drawcord on the L side instead of center neck. Not sure about Length – Regular for me (6 ft tall) and Short for her (5 ft 6 in. tall)?

-Apex 40F quilts preferably with center neck slit, sized as wide and long or wider and longer than the down quilts so they could be used on top of the down and so moisture could collect there instead of in the down.

Thank you Jon, totally agreed about thinking about it as a system. Currently we have an Xtherm and Xlite and CCF R2 Zlite pads for under them in winter and for some summer trips. I find the Xtherm hot for some summer trips. We’re thinking about trying the Nemo Tensor. And we’d like to pick up a thin CCF for summer trips under the inflatables (we have GG thin CCF pads in California but not with us).

Piney thanks for the heads up on 950 being the only goose down offered and on the unstuffed width tip. I’m a side sleeper and measured myself in a natural position, and Wide would be the absolutely narrowest I could go. XWide would probably add a lot of weight and cost, so need to consider it.

Matt and Piney, definitely going with the closed foot box. Matt Hammock Gear makes excellent quality gear, and sounds like you chose well. Currently have HG’s 20F Economy Burrow.

Re conditions, trying to make our kit as flexible as possible for a wide variety of conditions for backpacking, bikepacking, kayaking and canoe trips.

-3 season coastal and alpine primarily for Northeast and W Coast, including coastal SF Bay Area, Central CA Coast, N California, but also for Pacific NW, SW, Mountain West and overseas.

-Winter W Coast including Sierras and Pacific NW, and New England. For California I’ve been able to get away with a 3 season quilt or sleeping bag + puffy clothing when needed, but New England winters tend to be colder, with colder day and night temps, so for colder NE Winter, we’d probably go to a down sleeping bag -10F or 0F + Apex overquilt). Recently in New England there have been winter warm stretches where you can do OK with 3 season gear.

Monte thanks for the heads up on bulk. I forgot how bulky my old Polarguard insulation was. I always carry at least a 50L pack and always count on more volume for winter.

MLD makes quality gear and we’d prefer neck slits, but it looks like to achieve a width and length as large or larger than the 10F down quilts would require a very large custom MLD Spirit quilt and I think it would be considerably more expensive, though I’ll check. A Large Spirit Quilt is only 50 in. Wide at the shoulders whereas the EE Wide is 55 in. To me the Spirit Quilt sizing and neck slit would make it a better stand-alone quilt than one to layer over down (please correct me if I’m wrong).

Does it look like the neck slit you have could be easily added after sewing to an EE Apex quilt?

[Monte Masterson]

At your height Ethan I’d totally go for the MLD Spirit size XL (52″ shoulder, 80″ long). But if you e-mail Ron he can give you a quote on a custom XXL wide (or as wide as you want). Spirit quilt with a head slot might end up costing $80 more than the EE Revelation Apex, however when you are sitting around camp on a cold morning you will be so glad you spent the money. The only expensive gear is the gear you don’t use.

As far as adding a head slot to an EE quilt, I don’t know whether or not you sew but I’m an amateur and was able to pull off the mod. Field tested at least 30 nights. Here I describe how I did it in my SUL Kit thread I posted Summer 2021. Maybe not the best way, but it works. Any questions just ask.

https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/sul-kit-for-temps-50-f-pictorial-and-detailed-gear-list/#post-3721773

[Ethan A.]

After consulting with some folks here and outside BPL, we’re at:

-EE Down Enigma 950FP 10F, Long Length and Wide Width for me, Regular Length and Wide Width for her (our heights are at the cutoff between sizes, so going long). 10d inner, and 10d or 20d outer material. One black side for faster drying in sun.

-40F Apex Quilt and possibly 30F for her given he quilt will be a smaller size (from another company that offers neck openings for use as a poncho). Plan to use this for summer+ and afraid a 30f Apex quilt may be too warm for me. At least a Large Wide size for me and at least a Regular Wide size for her. Black or at least one black side for faster drying in sun. Monte I agree with you about the poncho slot, totally worth it.

Remaining questions:

1) For the down Enigma outer material, will 20d be so much less breathable than 10d that it will interfere with moisture escaping? Looks like 20d adds about 2 oz.

2) Does the draft collar really add anything? I mean specifically the draft collar on the EE Enigma. Two longtime EE Enigma users felt that where it’s placed it doesn’t do much. Appreciate your thoughts.

3) I wish EE would place the neck toggle on side of the quilt, not in the front center.

 

[Ryan Jordan]

Ethan – the breathability difference between the 20d and the 10d may not be noticeable in most conditions you’d be in. If you spend a lot of time below freezing conditions on multi-day trips, I’d opt for whatever fabric is more breathable. As of a few years ago, the EE 20d fabrics were slightly more breathable. My winter bags tend to use 20d outers. Durability of my 10d and even 7d outers has never been an issue on a quilt.

The more overstuffed and larger a draft collar works, the better. If EE can assure you of that, I’d do it. Otherwise, for most 3-season conditions, I’d skip it (you’ll likely wear a puffy hoody anyways when it gets real cold). All of my winter quilts have big draft collars.

I’m with you on the neck toggle. But I don’t find it annoying often enough to worry about it too much.

[Ethan A.]

Thank you Ryan, that’s very helpful. Since we anticipate using the down quilts 3 season + winter under an Apex quilt, you’d go with the 20d outer for the down quilt? For your winter quilts with 20d outer fabric, what’s the inner fabric – 20d also or 10d? (Funny thing is I heard folks suggesting 10d for the inner for greater breathabilty – I think they were assuming the lighter fabric must be more breathable).

We’ll be using an insulated balaclava in cold conditions, but a draft collar if it functions well should work well with it.

[Iago Vazquez]

EE discusses fabric at this link and does mention that the thicker fabrics are less breathable.

 

[Ethan A.]

Thank you Iago, I read their fabric page after Ryan posted his comment on the 20d – I figured perhaps he used an older version of the 20d that was more breathable. Given our use case for 3 season + winter with an apex quilt, we’ll go for a 10d inner and 10d outer.

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