Any love for Klymit pads?

[W I S N E R !]

The Exped Synmat UL 7 was likely my favorite pad. But with blown baffles and whatnot…

The noise and horizontal baffles of the NeoAir line bugs me. Been using an old school 3/4 Prolite with a CCF pad underneath but could use a full-sized inflatable again.

Looking at the new Klymit Insulated V Ultralight SL. Easy to find for ~$100. 16 ounces, claimed R-4.4. 20D.

This compares almost identically to the Exped, though it claims to be a tad warmer. If I recall right, I paid $160 for the Exped.

But I don’t hear Klymit pads get much attention here…What gives?

 

 

[Iago Vazquez]

I think Drop.com regularly sells that pad or a similar one for about $60. I tend to recommend for people that are starting and not wanting to spend much. It seems out of stock at the moment, but perhaps you can reach out and check with them about restocking.

I have an older model, slightly wider (23″) and heavier fabric (19 oz). My wife, son and I rotate it at times and we all like it. But the loss of three inches may not go well with my size L top torso. I don’t like the standard width NeoAirs.

Currently the only 20″ pad I find comfortable is the Nemo Tensor Ultralight. I sleep both on my back and side. I don’t have enough nights in it to speak about durability. I think the Klymit has synthetic insulation and the Nemo “aluminized” insulation. Not really sure if that’s the case. I have read some folks here claim the latter is more durable.

The Nemo comes with an inflation bag that actually works well. I don’t like the older style valve Thermarest inflation sacks.

[Monte Masterson]

I can’t speak for the warmer full size Klymits, but the Inertia X-Lite (small) has been my go to SUL multi-function pad for years. Never a failure. 70d bottom and 30d top. Works well as a 1) sleep pad (better a with small piece of ccf foam added under the shoulders). 2) makes a great camp seat if you have something to use as a back rest (tree, big rock, etc). Just deflate it a little and fold 90 degrees about 1/3 up where the lower (wider) portion meets the openings. 3) serves as a frame for a frameless UL pack.  6 oz w/ stuffsack.

I also carry the Klymit sit pad as a multi-function tool. 2.2 oz. 70d top and bottom. It’s a 1) sit pad. 2) pillow when slightly deflated and folded in half and then placed inside of a DIY silk pillow cover. 3) kneeling pad for arranging inside tent from outside the door opening. Has an inherent weakness though and that’s the small oval “navel” at the top of the pad where both sides bond together. It will leak, but it’s easily remedied by a patch and good bonding cement on both sides. Best to do it proactively. Then it’s bomber.

 

A lot of people love the insulated Big Agnes pads. They can be found fairly cheap at  campsaver and other sights.

[W I S N E R !]

Well, looks like I’ll be the lab rat, getting out this weekend with it.  Amazon owed me a little money so I just picked it up for $80. That’s 50% of what most comparable pads (by spec) are going for so we’ll see…

Iago, I saw the ones Drop was selling but I believe they were the uninsulated, standard weight versions. This “UL” model piqued my interest; we’ll see how it holds up and if it’s really as warm as claimed.

[J-L]

I don’t think Klymit has posted any R-values using the new ASTM 3340 standard. I highly doubt the Insulated V Ultralight SL will be as warm as an R-value 4.4 pad should be.

It’s a bit of a mess, as Klymit accidentally posted updated R-values last year, and then quickly took them down saying it was a mistake. All the updated R-values were much lower.

Updated Klymit R-Values with the new ASTM standard from Ultralight

And the comments here: https://sectionhiker.com/the-new-sleeping-pad-r-value-standard-has-arrived/

[W I S N E R !]

I suspect the same John.

The Exped Synmat UL7 was something like R3.5. The Klymit appears to use a similar layer of synthetic insulation…I have a hard time seeing how it would be warmer. However, they claim the deep grooves/baffles allow bag insulation to expand under you…Snake oil? We’ll see!

[Dondo .]

The late, great Roger Brown, a former BPL member turned me onto Klymit pads.  Here’s his review.

I’ve had the Insulated Static V lite a number of years and find it really comfortable.  Weight on my scale is 19.6 oz. The Massdrop  insulated version was too narrow for me and seemed to be colder in the field.

There was a minor kerfuffle when new ASTM R ratings came out.  So, at this point, we can’t yet tell how Klymit’s ratings compare to other pads.   I can write more on this if you’re interested.

But recently, I tested the pad  in the mid-twenties on snow over frozen ground with a down sleeping bag, and was toasty.  If you use a quilt in cold temperatures you may be happier with other insulated pads because of the unique designs of the Static Vs

[Dondo .]

I see that the kerfuffle has been noted.  Carry on.

[Dondo .]

Anyway, there are a couple of threads about the Klymit ASTM R-Values over at r/ultralight.  Some of the comments are more insightful than others.

Recently,  I reached out to Klylmit asking when they would be getting their new ASTM ratings.  Here is their response:

Thank you for contacting Klymit. Great question! 
​

We have been able to complete testing on a few of our insulated models, and they have maintained their 3-4 season rating. Unfortunately due to Covid-19 delays, testing on all our insulated models has not been completed yet. 
The ASTM standard is a test Klymit chose to adopt along with many other major brands. It was introduced this year but it is not required to be implemented until 2021. With the unexpected events of 2020, it is likely that testing results will be extended. Please know we are working hard to provide that information to our customers and it will be published on klymit.com as soon as it is available.

Our insulated pad’s insulation style has not changed and they are still expected to be rated 4 season pads. 

If you wish to read a more in depth explanation on the new ASTM scale, please check out this article. https://seatosummit.com/blog/understanding-the-new-astm-standard-r-values/

 

 

 

[J-L]

If the Klymit Insulated V Ultralite is that warm, then it would be one of the best pads on the market – warm, durable fabric, and quick to inflate without a pump sack.

I tried an Inertia Ozone by Klymit many years ago with a 20F down mummy bag. While I remember it being a comfortable pad, I also remember getting cold in the low 30s and had to add a foam pad to finish the night. I concluded that their baffle insulation idea could not overcome the large areas that were not insulated.

[W I S N E R !]

“If the Klymit Insulated V Ultralite is that warm, then it would be one of the best pads on the market – warm, durable fabric, and quick to inflate without a pump sack.”

^This, which is why I picked it up. If the Insulated V Ultralight SL can merely approximate the Synmat UL7 in warmth/comfort (my personal baseline for a comfortable mattress) then it’s a winner at 60% – 75% of the cost in addition to a lifetime warranty. Exped wouldn’t help me because my baffles blew at the 3 year mark.

As with all things in life, I reserve the right to be disappointed! But by the numbers, it should be a winner. Hence my curiosity about not hearing much about them. Too good to be true? We’ll see. It arrives in a few days and I’ll be out hunting/backpacking this weekend with lows in the high 20s predicted…but will also be carrying a CCF pad just in case.

 

 

 

[Rex Sanders]

“It was introduced this year but it is not required to be implemented until 2021.”

– ASTM F3340-18 was adopted in 2018 (hence the “-18” in the name).

– REI and the late lamented MEC gave advance notice in 2019 that suppliers must provide ASTM F3340 R-values starting in 2020. AFAIK, that’s the only thing close to “required,” and I haven’t heard of any postponement.

– OTOH, REI still sells pads in early 2021 without R-values displayed on the web page, including three from Klymit:

https://www.rei.com/rei-garage/product/187539/klymit-static-v-recon-sleeping-pad
https://www.rei.com/rei-garage/product/189003/klymit-inertia-o-zone-sleeping-pad
https://www.rei.com/rei-garage/product/189004/klymit-inertia-x-frame-sleeping-pad

But REI sells other Klymit pads that include R-values.

Something’s fishy. More coronavirus craziness?

— Rex

[Brian F]

I’ve slept on the Insulated Static V Lite in snow down to 0 degrees. It’s about 4 oz heavier than the Ultralight SL but also rated R 4.4. I often take a Ridgerest SOL, too, (R 1.1) for insurance in the winter but the Klymit’s plenty warm even without it.

Got it at the yearly promo at Costco for about $60 (40% off).

After 3 or 4 trips, it started deflating at night – surprisingly warm even deflated. Discovered an easy fix on Klymit’s FAQ page and the valve has worked great ever since (2+ years):

[Stumphges]

I have a Insulated UL from Drop. About 19 oz. Comfortable but I found it cold with a quilt, I think because the channels. My wife now uses it with a Montbell bag and does not complain, I think because the down of her bag bottom fills up the channels.

[W I S N E R !]

Hmmm…

Pad arrived today. Very happy with packed size and weight. But this is interesting:

Sounds like shenanigans to me. 4.4 R value….with 1.9 ASTM 3340 in parentheses…tricky!

Will test it in the 20s this weekend. Based on feel, the insulation seems about as thick as the Synmat UL7.

 

 

[J-L]

That’s weird. Why even bother printing 2 R-values? Makes me think Klymit is delaying reporting ASTM R-values because their pads don’t test well.

[Dondo .]

My guess is that the ASTM values that Klymit released and later pulled back at the beginning of last year is how they tested.  So this is how they are trying to thread the needle.  Klymit may argue that because of the unique design of their pads, they didn’t test well.  Based on my own experience and that of others, they may have a point.  It’s possible that the idea of the down at the bottom of your bag blocking off the channels and providing insulation actually works.   This would suggest, though, that quilt users should stay away.

Wisner, I’m looking forward to hearing about your impressions of the pad.

 

 

[Jan Rezac]

A friend of mine got the klymit UL insulated from massdrop about two years ago, and says it’s not warm enough for sleeping on snow.

The R-value presented at that time suggested it’s comparable to proven 4-season pads, and I wondered how they achieved that with so much weld-through area. I’d guess that the new (leaked) much lower R- values are real.

The only positive thing here is that the massdrop price was fair even for a 3-season pad.

[W I S N E R !]

Couldn’t go with my original plan to test this down to 20F as the area was calling for 40MPH gusts and is home to too many standing dead trees for my comfort in those conditions. I did get out overnight in some local canyons, though lows only went down to 50F (yes, that’s what we call winter here!).

That said, I like the size, weight, and comfort.

I prefer the “V” baffle pattern to thermarest, whose horizontal baffles don’t agree with my lower back. I used my bag as a quilt, no insulation but the pad under me. No chill whatsoever, but 50F isn’t much of a test (though it does tell me this pad will be a solid choice for local trips for 80% of the year). Didn’t leak a drop of air, which is great considering they’re using some new form of overcomplicated inflation/deflation valve (we’ll see how this lasts):

I’ll keep pushing the temp on this pad and report back.

 

[Dondo .]

Yeah, Craig, that’s a real good weight.  The V baffles also work much better with my back than the horizontal baffles in the NeoAir.

Recently, Phil over at Sectionhiker contacted Klymit about the new ASTM values.  Turns out that they are indeed 1.9.  Phil comments that “The problem they face is that the new standard assumes a flat pad pressed between two plates.  Klymit’s air channels perform poorly on this test.”

[Jeff M.]

I’ll be interested to hear how it performs in colder temps also. I just unloaded an xlite that kills my lower back. I was thinking of giving exped another shot but also looking at alternatives. They recently replaced a hyperlite winter pad with a blown baffle no questions asked for me. Pretty sure it was out of warranty. Sounds like I was luckier than you with that. Klymit headquarters is just down the road. I may have to stop by and chat with them about the R values.

[W I S N E R !]

Got out last night, low temp of 38 degrees.   The pad did great, didn’t leak a drop of air…plenty comfortable warmth-wise, though I did start feeling a little cold seeping through so I’m suspecting ~freezing would be about its limit for me. Which is fine, because I typically won’t do sub-freezing with an inflatable alone; I always carry a CCF if I know I’ll be getting freezing or below.

Based on my experiences so far, I’m pretty sold on the cost/comfort/size/weight ratio of this pad. Just don’t use it assuming it’s R4.4.

[Daniel C]

Yeah, I’m guessing their air baffles are not so good for the new test methodology. I would bet that they are pushing for an exemption or change to the test methodology before they fully advertise. That’s why they kept saying ‘it’s still a 4-season pad.’ I have a ton of klymit stuff, mainly due to availability and price. Have been happy with them and their customer service is great. They’ve replaced an X-wave with a leaky valve. Just ordered the ultralite, but may switch for the lite for the added width.

[Ray Klahne]

I have the pad you mention, which I use in my hammock, as well as the slightly wider “non-SL” version. I’ve been very satisfied with these after using others to compare against. I don’t know that you’ll find as high an R-value to Weight elsewhere.

[W I S N E R !]

I was using a 20 degree mummy bag and had the bag under me. I’m typically a warm sleeper…IMO claims that this is a 4 season stand-alone pad are pretty dubious. As I said, even with a bag under me, I was feeling the chill starting to come through at ~38 while the rest of me was actually almost overly warm. Personally, I would not trust it by itself at freezing or below…which in my mind defines the beginning of “4 Season”.

That said, it’s still a great choice for what I do and I have no qualms pairing it with a full length CCF pad on colder weather trips…that’s my go-to cold weather system anyway.

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