Am I being too picky?

I recently bought a six moon designs haven tarp, in silnylon. I hesitated for a long time because six moon designs recently switched their lunar solo tent to silpoly. Is SMD going to make the same switch for their other shelters? Are they testing the silpoly and consider the current lunar solos prototypes?
<p style=”text-align: left;”>As a novice backpacker I don’t know why silnylon was ever preferred, I’ve only seen the recent discussions here. I bought the haven because I figured the people at six moon designs know more than me, but every morning it sags in the dew I wonder if I bought something I knew wouldn’t work well or if I still need more practice pitching it…</p>

jacob,

read this. from what i’ve seen dan knows his stuff and i trust him

https://drop.com/talk/46271/how-does-polyester-and-silnylon-compare-head-to-head-in-terms-of-stretch-sag-water-absorption-abrasi

I don’t want to spend the money, so I want someone to make a custom piece of gear for me rarely works out very well.  Are you being too picky? Probably. Their are an awful lot of very experienced cottage manufacturers making quality gear based on their years of experience. Pick the one that best matches your needs. If you have unique, unexplored needs and are willing to pay look at getting a piece of custom gear.

If other cottage manufacturers offered some of their existing designs in a different material I’d be over it in a heart beat!  Like I said I love some of the designs just not the material.  DCF is too expensive for my blood and usage,  and silpoly from what I’ve read is better than silnylon so I guess I wait until either I can make it myself,  someone is willing to for me or manufacturers offer silpoly along with silnylon.

I think Ben was implying that the cottage manufacturers, with their experience, have chosen silnylon often because they think it is the right material for their design. Obviously, some disagree. What you’ve read about silnylon and silpoly does not make one material better or worse, only tradeoffs in performance, which the cottage manufacturers have likely taken into account.

Making a shelter is time consuming, so expect to spend $$$ for someone to make something custom for you if they are good and value their time correctly. There are a few silpoly shelters out there, most notably the X-Mid if you want something off the self. Yama makes the Cirriform in Silpoly but looks to be out of stock right now. I’m sure there are plenty more but you’ll have to do some searching.

Completely understand.  If what I’ve read about silpoly not absorbing moisture and not sagging that’s my preference then after a rain lugging around extra water weight bc my shelter sucked it up.  We are trying to be light weight after all.  I also noticed 6 moons has switched the lunar solo to silpoly….

MLD still offers all of their shelters in silnylon. I doubt anyone considers MLD to deliver anything less than exemplary gear.  I would trust a quality manufacturer to make an educated choice of materials for their product. IOW, I second buying the shelter whose design best matches your needs. However, if only a silpoly shelter will satisfy, then by all means seek one out.

How does Silpoly hold up against deet and silnylon for that matter

I own or have owned  at least 10 Silnylon shelters. ( First bought in 1990s)

And also 2 silpoly shelters.

On Silnylon, if pitched taut and correctly, I find sag only sometimes a problem in low temperatures.  I’ve never had an issue with sagging on the Tarptent Notch and Stratospire 2. Even after a night of heavy rain. ( Most used shelters in recent years- both over 100 nights)

Silnylon does absorb a lot of water though, which makes it temporarily heavier if not able to dry before packing.

With silpoly, I find you get a mechanical stretch – even when dry.  Large panels can bow in with wind. Last time I used it,  I had the end panel of the Xmid1 touching the inner by dry wind bowling it. Similarly, our Trekkertent large panels bowed in more than I’d expect Silnylon to.

Also. Not all silpoly is the same.  The fabric on my Trekkertent (RBTR1.1oz) was quite different in look and hand to the fabric used in the XMid.

In conclusion, I think, that apart from water absorption ( which is the main downside of nylon to me), the difference between the fabrics is not so crucial.

I’d choose my shelter model brand based on good design and strong quality build techniques.

I’m not so keen on DCF due to aesthetic, cost/durability and comparative pack size/need to roll rather than stuff. Though Tarptent Li range is tempting.

Mole,

Thanks for the observations and input and confirming the water absorption.  How long do you think it takes to dry the silnylon out?

The water absorption is the biggest downside for me as well.

If you’re interested in a silploy shelter from a quality cottage supplier you could check out Yama Mountain Gear – they were early adopters and have a lot of experience with the fabric.

They are also very generous with their knowledge and will give you good info on the reasons behind their fabric choice.

On the other side of the argument, Ron Bell at MLD is an expert on silnylon.

My SMD Gatewood is silnylon and it sags within about an hour of setup. If it rains, it might sag a bit more. Since it’s a pyramid design, all it takes is raising the center pole and the whole tarp tightens at once. I don’t even have to sit up.

When I was choosing a tarp for hammocking, I went with silpoly since it’s an A-frame and has very wide panels. So far, no sagging.

Does anyone have personal experience with any of the “newer” silnylons being used? Specifically, MLD or newer tarptent models?

Josh, what kind of shelter are you looking for?

Josh .

Drying time depends on so many factors. Sun, temperature, wind, precip/humidity…

In our climate, I rarely think about trying to dry a shelter in the morning, as I’d never get going when I wanted to! Just shake off and pack. Maybe a mop down if I can be bothered.

The inner  soon dries enough once re-erected and occupied.

I think the whole “silpoly doesn’t absorb water” thing is blown out of proportion. You’re still going to be packing up a wet shelter. One example:

https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/wet-weight-of-silpoly/

While I think silpoly has advantages over silnylon, I would choose tent design first, and worry about silpoly or silnylon second.

Fair enough on fabric, I think this is one of those topics that will be an forever on going debate and there will be no clear winner only personal preference.

I’ll contact Ron and get his side of the argument.

John: very interesting, but i’m also wondering about the fabric source and who makes its it. Being and engineer in manufacturing I very well know as should the good consumer that not everything is made the same but called the same things. there are quality controls and specs that need to be met.  so RSBTR 1.1silpoly may not be from the same manufacture as what borah gear is using or anyone else. then there is xenon which i believe is a different type of silpoly.  to my point like Mole said above : Also. Not all silpoly is the same.  The fabric on my Trekkertent (RBTR1.1oz) was quite different in look and hand to the fabric used in the XMid.

I can also agree on design before fabric. Right now my leading contenders on design from manufactures are the Zpacks hexamid or pocket tarp with doors (BUT I’m not willing or can justify the cost of DCF), WildGear Designs Penta tarp (not in production due to Covid, although he says he’s starting up again soon), i’m intrigued by yama’s 1p cirriform. 6 moons deschutes, and MLD solomid. i also kinda like this which is similar to yama’s

what i’m looking for is a modular (tarp/bug net, mainly tarp then bug) , i like the style of a mid with a beak and doors for full protection, although i could probably get by with out doors but i don’t want to limit myself to fair weather….. ideally i’d like to stay under 2lbs for both, ideally no more than 1.5lbs. , single pole set up (just incase one breaks or i’m sure i could even at that point find a strong stick to make it work, plus i think it makes set up easier and less to worry about). i’m also 6ft…..

Dont look past Six Moon Designs Gatewood Cape.. you can pair it with any style bivy/bug bivy or the Serenity Nettent as seen here! It also works perfectly by itself if bugs are not a problem!

Mechanical stretch is in the weave, so I don’t think it has much to do with poly vs nylon but rather how tight particular fabrics are weaved combined with specifics of the design (e.g. orientation of the fabric, size of the panels). Whether stretch is a good or bad thing depends on the application, since sometimes you want stretch and sometimes you don’t. Whereas with sag (expansion) it’s always a negative since you’re losing tension. The consequences of that vary with the design, since a freestanding tent doesn’t lose structural integrity whereas a trekking pole tent does.

With the X-Mid 1P there were reasons we originally wanted more mechanical stretch on the end panels, so we put the fabric on the diagonal to the corner seams for more mechanical stretch. That led to some downsides though (wrinkles, more deflection, a bit trickier to pitch) so we’ve modified this now. The 2P has always been like that since the larger panels are better with less stretch, and we are going to less stretch for the next batch of the 1P also. So the fabric threads are now parallel to the corner seams which has reduced deflection substantially.

As I’ve mentioned before, veteran trade designer of lightweight tents Mike Cecot-Scherer is a big proponent of silpoly.

His view is that the greater sag of wet/cold silnylon causes problems because the panels won’t perform as designed. They deform and catch the wind reducing inner space, causing flapping and putting strain on anchors and poles.

As mentioned above, this is less of an issue with a single pole mid. With my TrailStar I set the pole at a bit of an angle, and if I need to re-tension the fly I simply straighten the pole a bit – takes literally 5 seconds. But with bendy-pole freestanding setups or more complex trekking pole designs re-tensioning is much more of a faff – especially if it can only be done from the outside in the teeth of the storm…

[regarding retensioning a slack silnylon tent]…especially if it can only be done from the outside in the teeth of the storm…

That’s the biggest point for me.  I generally have no bothersome sagging with my silnylon tent as long as I’m able to snug all the lines up after the temperature drops, which is my usual bedtime routine.  But if I have to dive in early for weather, the tent goes slack after a little while–the worst possible time for it to do so.  I haven’t had a chance to sit through a storm with my silpoly tent, but I’m looking forward to it.