Active Ursack Defense

Interesting for sure. Here’s the thing: bears are smart. I imagine a bear running off at the initial sounding of the alarm. And now you’re awake, waiting to see what comes next. in twenty minutes, the bear goes after the bag again–and it will. Another alarm. And so on. You get little sleep that night.

I could be wrong. But IME a bear won’t run off to the hills after an alarm goes off.  Rather it will investigate from the safety of night, and return when it sees nothing amiss.

Maybe a sleepless night is worth saving 8 ounces over a Bearikade. Not for me! I need my sleep.

In the Sierra Nevada before bear canisters existed, I use to tie my pots to the outside of my bear bag.  When a bear messed with it, or at least the branch it was hanging from, it would make a clanging noise, which often scared off the bear, and at least woke me up to make sure it was gone.  I didn’t often have a repeat visitor, but actively chasing off a bear is better than no food.   I never lost my food to a bear, even in Yosemite.

It’s not like you have a bear encounter every night unless you chose to camp only in known problematic bear spots, so you shouldn’t be very sleep deprived.  And in fact, choosing your campsite location is part of good bear defense.  It’s why I use to avoid heavily used locations where everyone is cooking in camp, except maybe to cook before moving on to my real camp.  So I think there is merit in the bike alarm; if it won’t be triggered by strong winds. But I don’t think I’d bother unless I was in an area that had known issues.

If you are using your Ursack, there should be no problem to begin with.  Adding an active defense shouldn’t make anything worse.  Best case is that you gather data about how many bear/critter intercactions were detected.  But you really won’t be able to determine if it worked or not.  Does that make sense?  My 2 cents.

I was backpacking in trinity alps.  There was a sign about a problem bear.

Someone put their food in ursack and a bear got to it, ripped it up, ate food.

Around 2008/2009 a friend of mine went on a group trip on the JMT.  They mostly used hard sided bear canisters but had some miscellaneous “overflow” supplies in an Ursak.  A bear got to the Ursak, and even though the bear failed to get into the contents, everything inside was smashed to bits and soaked in bear saliva as the bear had spent the night gnawing on it.

Did the Ursak prevent the bear from getting to the contents?  Yes.  Was any of the contents suitable for human consumption afterwards?  No.

I’ve heard enough other anecdotal stories on here and elsewhere to conclude that an Ursak will not stop a determined bear from ruining your food.  I’ll carry a Bearikade in areas with problem areas and gain a stool to sit on as part of the bargain.

Wh not use the aluminum insert with your Ursack.  That should take care of the spoiled food problem.  But the best solution is exactly as Ryan recommends:  Use odor proof liners.  I used to use 2 liners when I was still backpacking, and never had a problem.  Caveat:  The areas I backpacked in had very few bears, and the ones that did hang out there were not accustomed to human food.  Another good strategy is to go cold food.  It really cuts down on the odor problem.

It’s not “when”, it’s “if”. There’s always that one time, but the odds of a bear ripping up my Ursak are pretty slim. If I’m hungry, I’ll eat the food anyway. There’s few places that I couldn’t hike out of and find food. On a busy trail with bear problems, I basically only have to do better than the next guy.

If a bear gets into your food it will be trained to get food from humans, which leads to problems and possibly euthanasia.

I’m a little lazy and don’t always hang my food in a bear proof way, because bears are afraid of humans where I go, so will stay away from me and my food

“If I’m hungry, I’ll eat the food anyway.”

I doubt that. Bear  slobber is incredibly sticky and disgusting. You won’t get into your bear slobbered and torn bag without spreading that everywhere.

“It’s not “when”, it’s “if”. ”

Everyone is sure that they’ll be the exception.  Right up until the moment they fall off the cliff face.

I think this thread is going off the rails.  Everyone has seen anecdotes about Ursak failures.  Unfortunately, we never know how the food in the failed bag was packaged. We don’t know how it was hung.  We don’t know if the users inadvertently contaminated the Ursak.  So, we really don’t know much.  I think we are all aware of what makes failures unlikely.  I personally try to follow those procedures carefully.  I have never had a failure. However, it is possible that a bear has never been in the vicinity of my bag.  So, I will never know for sure if my techniques are effective or if I have just been lucky.

Often, when I tie the bag up, it is difficult to find a stout tree with sufficiently stout branches.  So, I worry that if a bear does attack my bag, it will drag the bag down the tree, slobber all over the bag and crush the food. Hence, my idea is to attach a motion-sensitive, loud alarm to the bag.  Simple concept, low cost, low weight and, if it works will make bear/bag interaction less likely to occur.  As Jon Fong correctly points out, I may never know if this works.  If I properly encapsulate my food in layers of odor-resistant packaging, a bear will probably have no interest in investigating my bag.

I will update this thread if a bear keeps me up all night, false alarms keep everyone in the vicinity up all night, a bear attacks my bag and destroys my food, or a bear flees the scene and does no harm.

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“I think this thread is going off the rails.”

Was taught to hang the more robust ursacks high on a tree, far above the reach of any bear.    Throwing a rock and cord over a high tree limb became routine.   Later, when began leaving ursacks hung up as food in the woods for caches, began using double odor proof inner sacks inside the ursacks.  Never had to use a canister, because avoided places where they were required, and did not camp in large open areas, even when doing the JMT.

Some years ago when mentioning the above, several BPL posters replied, “You did what!”  My only meeting with grizzlies was in the Canadian Rockies, where there was a cabin nearby, so the food sacks were hung inside. But while I was setting up the tent on the other side of a gorge, two grizzlies sauntered into the site.  Tip-Toeing backwards into the gorge, I breathed a sigh of relief when I saw one grizzly was playing with the tent pole like a fly rod, while the other was going through the gear left in my pack.  A guy from Sweden came by and said with his Lawrence Welk accent, “Oh, You have seen the bear!”  But all visitors spent the night in the cabin, afraid to step outside, because there was loud and frenetic scratching all night against the outside of the door.  The grizzlies were gone by dawn, and the gear could be retrieved with almost no damage.  But all along the route back, piles of bear poop were found along the trail.

After that trip, my slogs have been in the USA.  My critics even tell me that bears like the taste of bear sprays.  One can’t be too careful out there.

“Unfortunately, we never know how the food in the failed bag was packaged. We don’t know how it was hung.  We don’t know if the users inadvertently contaminated the Ursak.”

hung??

users inadvertently contaminated an Ursak? What?? Do you mean, they touched it with their hands? Inadvertently rubbed it with salmon steaks??

Ursaks are designed NOT to be hung. They’re designed to be wrapped around the solid trunk of a tree at ground level. Sure, you can hang them, but now you’re just back to the old issues with counter-hanging. If a bear gets your hung Ursak, it will run off into the night and you’ll never see it again. Might as well just counter hang with nylon bags. Perhaps you’ll say, at least the bear won’t get into the food. I doubt that. The bag will be a toy for the bear over several nights. It will eventually succeed.

A bear will smell humans. You can’t wrap yourself, much less your dinner, in an odor proof bag. bears know that humans carry food. Bears have remarkable noses. Yes, once attracted to your presence, they will detect food in your odor barrier wrapped Ursak.

and once again, no, no one will eat bear slobbered food. No matter how hungry one may be.

Semantics. Ursacks are hung from trees, of course not like a bear bag hang. Ursacks are not wrapped around trees. However, the Ursacks rope (cable) is.

However, The point is whenever a bear succeeds in being attracted  to an Ursack  we don’t know if he was attracted because of human error or superior hunting skills.

If I’m in a survival situation, I’m not going to die. I’ll eat.  If I’m not in a survival situation, I’ll walk out and go hungry for a day.

A bear trying but failing to get in an Ursack will likely still get the food reward from leaking crumbs and bits combined with increasing smell sensations as they work on it. Most bears with a food reward will eventually die.

The key to saving the bear, and secondarily your food, is to interrupt the bear immediately after it discovers the Ursack. This alarm helps, but in heavy use areas the active defense strategy Seeber calls for might need the user to be the active part: Bear triggers an alarm, camper storms out of tent with as much additional noise and movement as possible. Repeat until day break.

More thread drift:

Ursacks are flawed imo. Bear cans are too, but to a much lesser degree. Currently a non-flawed option awaits the market.

Common advice dispensed by Ursack users are the addition of odor proof bags, aluminum liners, and motion alarms. Some wants the company to use a longer cord at the top for bigger trees. For each mod the weight creeps closer to a solid sided container.

The directions included are moderately clear but often misunderstood, judging from the threads I read. A safety item like this should be fool proof, like a seat belt.

There is also a learning curve to correctly use a canister, but it’s arguably less steep with fewer consequences.

Canisters give them an initial smell reward, but often that’s it. Anecdotes from Little Yosemite Valley campground is that bears seeing a canister on the ground saunters on to find better options. 25 years plus of strict canister requirements in YOSE and SEKI may be affecting local bear behavior?

Are odor proof bags odor proof? Wag bags stink after a day or two on the trail. To mitigate this I tried carrying them in an Opsak. I eventually detected a poop smell.

Lots of moving parts to this.  A violated ursack could have food contamination, no odor proof bag or an improperly sealed one.

A good starting point is the question: has anyone heard of cases of food being destroyed in an ursack with a known-to-be sealed  Opsack?  “I think it was sealed” doesn’t count.

I haven’t

This video gives me comfort that the Opsak is good enough if handled properly

Some food contamination can happen but as the recent BPL study showed the radius of attraction is directly related to the quantity of contamination, wind direction and other factors so the risk is greatly reduced with an opsak even if some small contamination is possible