A Winter Water Challenge

[David Gardner]

Titanium is bad at holding an edge or a point, so it isn’t generally used for knives, axes, picks, crampons, etc. Especially not if long term durability is required. Specialty Ti versions of those items are cool and light, but I’d be very surprised if the Ti ice pick held up under multiple days of pounding into hard ice.

For that matter, I have doubts about whether the home/bar picks shown above are up to the task. Even they don’t bend and stay sharp, they will require a huge amount of physical labor to chop enough ice out of a frozen creek or lake for daily water needs.

All kidding aside, I think this is one of those “right tool for the job” situations. Water is pretty high on Maslov’s hierarchy of needs. For a few ounces, go with steel. For a few ounces more go with the Estwing or similar.

If you’re willing to bet you can always find a suitable log or rock “hammer” get a tungsten-tipped professional center punch. You can pound on that baby with a boulder for the rest of your life and pass it down to your kids to do the same.

[Bonzo]

<p style=”text-align: left;”>A punch…now that’s not a bad idea.  That’s not a bad idea at all.</p>

[Roger Caffin]

Welldoit 9″ Stainless Steel Ice Pick with Wooden Handle and Sheath Kitchen Tool
Have you seen what an enraged little old lady can do with a large knitting needle? Perhaps a Tactical Knitting Needle?

Cheers

[Bonzo]

@rcaffin – I haven’t, no.  Is this what I get from not watching enough Murder, She Wrote when I was growing up..?

[Bryan Bihlmaier]

I think the idea of an ice screw to create a hole, then a pump-type filter with a hose to pull water from underneath the ice sounds like the best light-weight solution (Katadyn Hiker is heavy, but the MSR Trail Shot might work too). As you know, you would have to keep these from freezing especially at night. The bonus is you wouldn’t be using tons of fuel to melt ice, so less fuel weight to carry. I would definitely try it on a scouting trip before committing to it though!
A climbing axe would be good for chipping ice, since it can be used for multiple purposes more than a hatchet (fire restrictions) or rock hammer could (unless you’re also hunting geodes 😋). Ice axe can be used as a burly tent stake (ridge line anchor), for climbing, even as a trekking pole on steep or off-camber trails. But now you’re left melting ice, and probably at least pre-filtering it to remove debris frozen into the ice.

[Bonzo]

Only problem with the Trailshot is the water-retention issue.  Mine likes to retain a lot of water so I drain it in cold weather, but it’s still damp enough inside to cause flow issues if it gets cold enough to freeze…so yeah, that’s a very valid concern.

[Eugene Hollingsworth]

This.

[Bryan Bihlmaier]

The bigger issue with the Trail Shot or any other hollow-fiber filter like Sawyer is that if they freeze it breaks the fibers and will no longer actually filter water – the water just passes through the fractures. I mean, having the tubes freeze up would suck because it would be unusable until you can thaw it out. But having it irreparably broken sucks even more.

[Bonzo]

Boiling can solve the lack of filtration in the event of a cartridge freezing, but yeah…the filter is still inactive as a pump as long as it’s frozen up.  And no, boiling isn’t ideal because it requires more fuel, but it’ll work.

Cheap idea to make an industrial ice pick: take a big, hardened center punch and epoxy a cork grip over it.  Leave the soft hammer-end exposed.

[Ryan Jordan]

Went out and tested today.

Chipping ice chunks with the pick of an ice climbing tool was slow, but doable.

The ice screw was a HUGE win – I’ll combine this with a T-hose and pump bulb to get water from the hole to my water bottle.

Next trip out, I’ll look at picks and center punches!

[Jerry Adams]

You can take a 1 liter soda bottle and use it to suck water, sort of like a bulb

The opposite of squeezing water through a squeeze filter

Squeeze air out of bottle, put opening into water, release bottle and water will go into bottle.  Repeat 10 or 20 times to get a full liter

[Ryan Jordan]

I’m not seeing that Jerry. The ice today was 3-5 inches thick. how do I get the 13/16″ dia nozzle of a soda bottle into a hole made by a 5/8″ dia ice screw?

[Jerry Adams]

Oh yeah, that doesn’t quite work.

It works for bigger holes

Maybe you could screw something smaller onto the soda bottle

Just brainstorming here :)

Soda bottle does act as a bulb that contains 1 liter of water

[Roger Caffin]

The button grass plains of SW Tassie can present similar problems, but there are hordes of yabbie holes which are usually full of water. The water table is just below the surface you see. (yabbie = small crayfish)

So to get water a large bore hose was inserted into the yabbie hole and you sucked it full (well, almost full). Then you drained the hose into your water bottle. Repeat N times till water bottle was full.

Experiments were run with one-way valves in T-junctions and rubber bulbs etc. These usually worked OK, provided you tested them before the trip. We found it was easier to look for a tarn, but Ryan does not have that option!

—–

How long did it take to drill in with a sharp ice-screw? Was it fast enough that you could drill a number of close holes to weaken the ice so you could break it? I do not know.

Cheers

[Ryan Jordan]

How long did it take to drill in with a sharp ice-screw? Was it fast enough that you could drill a number of close holes to weaken the ice so you could break it?

60 sec per hole. Hmm…interesting idea!

[Roger Caffin]

I am sure I have seen somewhere a little handle which was intended as a crank for an ice screw. That might make it faster.

Cheers

[Roger Caffin]

I just looked at the prices for ice screws.
Oh My God!

How about a sharpened Coach Screw? With handle.

Cheers

[Rex Sanders]

An Estwing rock hammer is definitely multi-use. Off the top of my head:

– Pounding shelter stakes, particularly into frozen ground (take sturdy stakes)

– Removing those frozen-into-place stakes the next morning

– Digging catholes in frozen ground, or really rocky ground

– Prying open stuck outhouse doors

– Repairing outhouse doors afterward

– Spare eating utensil, used like a giant solitary chopstick

– Shelter stake (stab into ground) or deadman (buried in snow)

– Balancing your pack when you put too much weight on one side

– Swinging in the air wildly to scare people from your favorite fishing hole or campsite

– Geologizing! No training required, just break off chunks of rocks and make up believable stories. Works best if there are no other geologists on your trip. Ask me how I know.

Almost forgot …

– Pulling handgun triggers from a safer distance

– Carefully arranging det cord, blasting caps, or thermite before the boom or burn

– Twisting ice screws or augurs

– Pounding massive knives, titanium ice picks, steel punches, or Tactical Knitting Needles(TM)

– Enlarging ice holes before inserting SmartWater bottles

Warning: Don’t try any of these ideas at home! Wait until you are alone, deep in the wilderness, and days from rescue.

— Rex :-)

[Roger Caffin]

I think that should be Tactical Titanium Knitting Needles.

Cheers

[Andy Berner]

Not the lightest thing.  find a stick and twist.  I have one but no ice at the moment otherwise I’d try it.  Then use a ball pump or Baster to get the water out.  Obviously if there’s just a trickle it’s gonna be a harder.

[Ken Larson]

Before ice fishing augers became the norm for ice fishing here in Michigan I use a long handle ax. They make short handle axes and this tool would work also with wood gathering & splitting, tent peg insertion and protection from unwanted “beasts”.  :)

[Eugene Hollingsworth]

@rcaffin

@ryan

Yeah, these things are really expensive. I’m seeing ’em at $36-$60. Ugh. But lighter than my knife, no chips flying into your face, and all that. Year’s ago I priced them for my portable ice tent…not happening.

I want to see a picture of Ryan’s setup getting water out in the wild. It’s a cool idea.

Picture from Wikipedia:

[Roger Caffin]

Ice fishing auger, ~US$12 each on ebay, looks like a wood screw
Ice Screw Tent Spiral Peg Drill, <$13 on ebay, looks like an climbing ice screw
You don’t need something rated for stopping a fall.

Cheers

[Eugene Hollingsworth]

@berner9 Nice! Scotch Eye auger thingie. Aught to be able to lean in and bore the ice pretty well.
I do hope we get some feedback from the less insane suggestions being used, though if anyone admits to thermite or det  cord: video or it didn’t happen. Just sayin’

[Roger Caffin]

You know, the scene Ryan showed looks nice. Sure, the creek was frozen solid, but the ground was clear. So what?

Meanwhile, here in Sydney, the temperature has gone over 40 C (104 F) in many places. And it is still only November. January is when it gets hot. We shut down between 11:00 and 12:00 for several hours (or more).

Cheers

[Author]

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