A NEW PARADIGM FOR ANALYZING PWPB SYSTEMS LIKE THE COLUMBIA OUTDRY EX FEATHERWEI

[Richard Nisley]

Brett,

GREAT COLLECTION of windshirts/active rain wear! A few drips occur between 200 and 300 mm are still viable for active rain wear.  Thank you for sharing your HH tests with us.

Please wash your Epic windshirt in powdered detergent, rinse twice, and then do a dryer cycle. It will no longer leak if it is truely an Epic garment. Please let us know what happens.

[Luke F]

The Outdry Ex Light is at an appealing price on a few sites right now, and I think I actually prefer the pocket layout to the featherweight. Would I be correct in assuming it is using the same base fabric and heavier coating as the Ex Gold tested? Same question for the Ex Eco, it seems all the claims (recycled fabric, no dye, etc) apply only to the base fabric and that nothing has been changed in regards to the coating, so I’m assuming the Ex Gold data would also translate.

Compared to the Featherweight it appears the Ex Light would have:

-more velcro adjustments (con in my mind)

-stiffer/less drape

-several ounces heavier (I’m seeing 11oz)

-slightly less breathable

-Different zippers (“light rail” vs coated YKK main zip)

Is there any other difference I’m missing? I don’t take WPB on trips all that often and think I could stomach the weight for the price.

[Richard Nisley]

Luke,
The Ex Light is a couple of ounces lighter than their most basic standard weight model.  They achieved this by removing the pit zips.

[Brett Peugh]

Richard,

After washing them with homemade powder detergent and two rinse cycles

The L4 did have about 6 drops forming on the outside with two of them dropping after 2 minutes.

The Greg Norman Epic had one small drop form on the outside after 2 minutes.  The windshirt is actually made out of Epic by Nextec and even says so on it in two different places.

 

I am more than happy to send any and all of these for testing.

[Richard Nisley]

Brett,

Neither the Epic or GTI coatings are olephobic. So, sometimes surface oil accumulation slightly impacts the “two-cup”  test. You eliminated that possibility after your retest.

The small amount of leakage seems to indicate they are all now in the 200-300 mm HH range which is good. In contrast, all of my older Houdini and Squamish windshirts are less than 100 mm HH.

[Brett Peugh]

But if they are Epic, they are really not supposed to degrade, correct?

[Richard Nisley]

Brett,

Epic is a manufacturing process; it is not a product. The manufacturing process is primarily used to encapsulate fibers with a silicone polymer to make them permanently hydrophobic. Secondarily, a Nextec Epic customer can specify a modification of the fabric’s intrinsic CFM and HH if different values are required for their market. Unless we did the 2-cup HH test when new, we can’t know if it changed.

 

 

[Brad Rogers]

Brett I think EPIC is a “permanent” “DWR” (for lack of a better term)  that shouldn’t easily degrade like traditional fluorocarbon DWRs, however, I am sure the fabric itself can degrade over time and get abraded and have pin holes etc, so I don’t think an EPIC treated garment will last forever, but the “DWR” (again, for the lack of a better term) properties should last the reasonable life of th garment.

[Brett Peugh]

Well the L4 has only been worn about maybe 4 dozen days so I am surprised it is has degraded that much.

[Brett Peugh]

Okay, if I may encapsulate about wind shirts.  Pretty much after a few years, heavy usage or through bushwacking the DWR HH will be below 100.  You can keep retreating them but at that point they are pretty much wind blockers and maybe to stop some very light and short rain.   The Epic process will create a permanent DWR on the fabric but the fabric itself may degrade some so it can fall below 300 HH but still remains active rain wear.  The thing is I have not seen a mass produced Epic wind shirt or jacket that weighs less than 10oz in a size XXL.  Correct?

[Hans Dampf]

Hi there,

I’m right now looking for a reliable, breathable rain shell to use for multi-day hiking when I’m not sure about the weather. Currently, this would be a lightweight event jacket with pit zips.

I now came across this thread and I’m pretty confused. The report is very interesting although I don’t understand all the technical details.

My question is: How does outdry extreme, or the various jackets, compare to event in terms of breathability, does anyone have real-life experience yet?
The featherweight does not seem to have pit zips, is that correct?
I thought I’ll go for Event, but now I’m unsure as this sounds very interesting.

Additionally I came across:
https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/a-good-alternative-to-wpb-gear-for-active-backpacking/
and just thought, if it works with getting wet as well – why not use something like the Montbell Versalite (Windstopper)? Then again I guess it only works if you are active. I’m pretty confused..

I would appreciate if anyone would take the time to enlighten me as I seem to not yet understand the what-to-use-when regarding these garments.

 

[Graham F]

G’day Hans,

if you go back to the beginning I am pretty sure your questions will be answered (and my use of it if that interests you) is mentioned. I probably have another 30 hours in use with it now and am very happy with it-I have not had it wet out -no pit zips, but I find front zips as found on this jacket to be superior so far. I have walked in wind (and rain) of about 20-25 knots coming diagonally front on, and no water ingress. Can’t fault the breathabilty so far. I had an event jacket, now sold, that would not hold DWR. Washed off too quickly, again and again. I would rate that event jacket to be not quite as high as the Columbia for breathabilty.

[Sean P]

Hi Hans,

my understanding is that the outdry is superior in terms of ‘breathability’ to event, not because the fabric is necessarily more air permeable, but because outdry does not wet out.

A jacket that has lost its DWR and has wet out has poor moisture vapour transmission.  This is the Achilles heel of all high end waterproof jackets that rely on a DWR coating.

[Hans Dampf]

Thanks a lot for your input! That sounds promising. I’ve ordered the Jacket as it was on discount here in Europe and will just give it a try.

Can anyone recommend any UL pants? Since they are usually not affected by direct pressure and less rain, I wondered if something like the versalite pants would make sense – as light as possible but still enough to not get wet.

Or what other alternatives are there? Is there anything in the versalite range, weight wise?

[Stumphges]

Hi Hans,

My experience with rain pants is that their DWR is rubbed off by vegetation, contact with ground while kneeling and sitting, etc. even more quickly than jackets. I’m interested in the Outdry Extreme stuff for pants for this reason, but I’m a bit skeptical about the durability – it seems to me that a polyurethane outer layer, even if armored, would be less durable than woven nylon.

Has anyone tried Columbia’s Outdry Extreme rain pants?

[Roger Caffin]

Sometimes the DWR is not actually rubbed off. Instead it is covered by oils and other chemicals from the vegetation, and they kill the effect.
Source: techie from mfr.

Cheers

[Brad Rogers]

I’ve said before I would love to see a Colombia Outdry “featherweight” pant to match the Jacket.  I think they could keep them in the 6oz range if they kept them simple.

[Christoph Blank]

I’m also interested in a pant that matches this jacket – does anyone know other pants that would be a good but lightweight match?

[Sean P]

 

I bought a Columbia Outdry Featherweight after reading this thread.  I have used it as a rain jacket in the Andes in for short rain bursts and as an emergency windshell a couple of times – when I didn’t bring a wind shirt.  I can confirm that it seems no worse than other WPM fabrics that I have used (gore-tex and pertex) but I cannot confirm the quality of the DWR.  The hood could do with some refinement but it is a very light jacket so I can’t be too  critical – certainly a better hood than the OR helium.

[Brad Rogers]

I found the Columbia Featherweight on sale for $98 so I broke down and bought one. I will report back once I get a chance to use it next month.

[Christoph Blank]

Can anyone tell me if the Marmot Phoenix (Evo Dry) is comparable to the columbia featherweight?

I might try it, it seems to have a better cut.

[Brad Rogers]

Marmot Evo Dry is a DWR they say that doesn’t wear off.

Columbia Outdry EX (and Gore Tex Shake Dry) do not require a DWR.

[Roger Caffin]

EVODry may not rub off easily, but sweat and oils and plant exudates will kill the surface tension just as quickly – betcha!

Cheers

[Christoph Blank]

Thanks a lot – I thought it is similar to Outdry Extreme as these were mentioned together a couple of times here, but then I got confused by the DWR statement as mentioned above.

I’ll stay with the featherweight for now and see how it works.

[Brad Rogers]

I have ordered one too and may use it on a trip to WRR next month if I like they way it fits/feels. Of course, hopefully I don’t need it :)

If you get one, please report back.

If they can get it to be breathable enough this technology (and others that will surely follow) could be a game changer in raingear.

[Author]

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