Outdoor Retailer Winter Market – insulation and fabric innovations

That "NuDown" (air chambers as insulation) is very confusing to me. I hope the engineers of BPL can explain, because I keep thinking of freezing my *ss off on an old inflatable AeroBed at my brother's house.

The bed had been inflated with 60F air (they like their house COLD), and the first night, I just couldn't warm up, no matter how many blankets I put over myself, because the cold was being conducted by through the bottom sheet into my body. For the second night, I put a double-thickness of blanket between the mattress and the sheet, and was warm all night.

So, how much body energy is it going to take to warm the air in the jacket (and maintain that warmth) when the air around you will be constantly trying to cool the air in the jacket's chambers?

In addition to DWR-down, now we have "Thermadown" to debate about. The OP's link says it can be 30% warmer than normal down. From Allied Feather's website:

ThermaDown™
IR Active Down

ThermaDown™ utilizes a natural particle-based thermoreactive nano-coating that, through the emission of infrared energy, increases the natural benefits of down. Using body heat as a catalyst, the ThermaDown™ IR active down utilizes a body’s emitted heat by trapping that energy in the particles coated on the down and transmitting it back within the high-infrared spectrum. This infrared energy is easily absorbed back into the body providing all the benefits of infrared subcutaneous absorption – gently increasing circulation helping to re-oxygenate muscles and keep the body temperate.

The result is a unique down that actively works with your own body heat to keep you warm, dry, energized, and comfortable in any condition or clime.

Proprietary blend of thermoreactive minerals to emit infrared energy at temperatures activated by body heat
Incorporates HyperDRY™ technology to provide extreme water resistance
Washable – particle coating will last the lifetime of the garment

The issue that might occur according to me is that the airpockets can be too big so that convection can occur. That's happening probably with that Aerobed.

All in all, it reminds me of Gore Airvantage.

i wonder how many of these "new" technologies are made more for their marketing potential than real life advantage

insulation is becoming the new battleground where brands need to differentiate themselves from the pack in the consumers mind … whether it makes sense in real life use or not

everyone has 800+ fill down (costco) and primaloft one/gold (LL bean) jackets … so in order to keep their price premiums and prevent commoditization, which is happening anyways, marketers need to dream up of new "best insulation" schemes

the other nasty secret is that with proprietary or special insulations … its pretty much impossible to make a proper comparison vs, the other insulations short of having a lab yourself … you almost never see any insulation comparison between brands these days

weve seen it all before with the battle over "breathable" WPB fabrics, the "bamboo" base layers, etc …

the worst thing for a marketer to have is a common insulation that everybody else uses … like basic down

you can tell when a company is trying to create the "most marketable" insulation rather than using the good old down or primaloft and focusing on the actual jacket

;)

"ThermaDown™ utilizes a natural particle-based thermoreactive nano-coating that, through the emission of infrared energy, increases the natural benefits of down. Using body heat as a catalyst, the ThermaDown™ IR active down utilizes a body’s emitted heat by trapping that energy in the particles coated on the down and transmitting it back within the high-infrared spectrum. This infrared energy is easily absorbed back into the body providing all the benefits of infrared subcutaneous absorption – gently increasing circulation helping to re-oxygenate muscles and keep the body temperate."

Screw the jacket, I want to take a bath in this stuff!

Thanks to Dave for the URL. I read the article as carefully as I could. My official summary?
Score +1 for marketing BS, and -1 for honest technical data.

A single example should suffice:
" The days of puffy down jackets in Michelin-man silhouettes are over, with consumers increasingly looking for lighter, slimmer, more functional options."
Translation:
"Never mind the performance; does this jacket make me look fat?"

Another amusing comment:
"believes that it would be less confusing to the consumer if there was one standard."
Translation:
"Our rivals won't use our 'standard' just because it has our name on it."

You get involved in all that marketing hype and you either go under, never to surface again, or you become really, really cynical. It's a bit like the book spy world where you never know who to believe, so you believe no-one.

Amusing stuff.

Cheers

"Natural particle-based thermoreactive nano-coating infrared energy natural catalyst utilizes emitted heat particles coated transmitting high-infrared spectrum absorbed infrared subcutaneous absorption."

Vomit.

Seriously, that was the most stomach-churning drivel I have ever read. Boycott the company to ensure that the ad-copy writer is fired.

Roger,
There was a movie with Joe Mantegna and Lindsay Crouse called House of Cards.
Basically a battle of two master con artists also involved in a romance.
Unfortunately, I think it's out of print. Way better than the current day House of Cards shows.

"There was a movie with Joe Mantegna and Lindsay Crouse called House of Cards."

I think you mean House of Games.

Really?
I haven't watched anything from Hollywood for maybe 20 – 30 years. OK, maybe 40.
A few non-Hollywood films like Bladerunner and The Gods must be Crazy were OK.

Cheers

"Natural particle-based thermoreactive nano-coating infrared energy natural catalyst utilizes emitted heat particles coated transmitting high-infrared spectrum absorbed infrared subcutaneous absorption."

Actually I believe this technology was first used in Silkience Hair Conditioner.

Gee, your jacket smells terrific.

"FIR technologies such as Celliant®, which incorporate minerals within textiles in order to absorb the body’s heat and convert it into infrared energy and emit it back into the tissue, are yet another way in which outerwear brands are offering new levels of comfort. Allied’s ThermaDown™ with Celliant is said to be 30% warmer and ideal for sleeping bags. – See more at: http://www.innovationintextiles.com/fibres-yarns-fabrics/lighter-faster-more-sustainable-is-outdoor-retailer-mantra/#sthash.w4Aw5Ctk.dpuf"

Yeah, sure.

is said to be???

I'd really like to know who said it… and then have him/her join me on a long drizzly PNW hike while counting on it. I think the ad copy has more hot air than the insulation.

Doug,
I have photographic proof: http://www.amazon.com/Mantegna-Lindsay-Crouse-House-Cards/dp/B00O22NXL0
House of Games was the CIA redacted version to protect its sources and methods.
"Cards" had to be replaced by "games" to keep us from knowing what kind of games were being played, and thus protect a key CIA methodology used during discreet surveillance.

Roger,
You just don't know what you've been missing.

"House of Games was the CIA redacted version to protect its sources and methods."

NANANANANANANANANA I can't hear you I can't hear you I can't hear you!

I'd rather be blissfully ignorant…..

> "Natural particle-based thermoreactive nano-coating infrared energy natural catalyst
> utilizes emitted heat particles coated transmitting high-infrared spectrum absorbed
> infrared subcutaneous absorption."
> Actually I believe this technology was first used in Silkience Hair Conditioner.

Um – I thought it was developed by the Sirius Cybernetics Corporation.

Cheers

Lighten up, Doug. It's only a wisecrack about some guys sitting in a barren room in the house next door, playing poker to stay sane, and keeping an eye on you.