Backpacking and Bushcraft

I think Bushcraft is great as long as it's LNT on public lands and responsible forestry practices are followed on private land.

Just a warning, these conversations have a tendency to quickly go in the toilet here at BPL, which is really too bad. There are more than a few bushcrafty types here but you'll find a more productive and less emotional opportunities for discussion at the bushcraft sites.

Some of the survival skills I was learning in search and rescue looked like bushcraft if you turned your head sideways.

A lot of the wood-chopping stuff – pine bough beds, branch shelters, etc – is definitely not LNT compatible. In some places it's expressly forbidden to chop live wood, take home pinecones, etc – National Parks have rules against this – like the rule in Yosemite to only have a fire in winter in an emergency.

And, fire bans in California have gotten more restrictive than ever – no fires, no smoking, nothing that causes a spark, no stove, no open flame period are the status quo in the coastal ranges. So no fires and no-cook food only. Not easy to go light that way.

So, in sum, any bushcraft-y skills I may or may not have only come into play in an emergency. Hypothermic? sure, I'll build a fire. Otherwise I am not likely to do so, even if there is no fire ban, because fires are prohibited in the alpine where I like to go….

I'm a fan and conduct myself LNT. there are some things still that can be done while maintaining that viewpoint.

There are many here who could utilize such techniques if they had to, but they don't depend on them. I have nearly fifty years experience in the outdoors, but when backpacking, a mini Bic or a magnesium stick does me far better than messing with a fire bow. A 12 oz tarp or a few ounces space blanket is much easier than a shelter that may take an hour to build. Survival situations are one thing, but this isn't a survival forum.

"there are some things still that can be done while maintaining that viewpoint."

Wish to elaborate?

One can learn bushcraft skills, and also do lightweight backpacking, just like one can learn mountaineering skills, and do lightweight backpacking. They are in the same panoply of outdoor skills, and one can use those skills when they are needed. It never hurts to know some of those skills as a backup. Count me as a primarily a backpacker who also does bushcraft, mountaineering, fishing, orienteering, skiing, and winter camping. Usually not on the same trip, but there is a crossover. I make knives and take them on backpacks, climb peaks while on a backpack, catch and cook fish on through hikes, build fires on backpacks, etc.

As far as this topic being inappropriate on this forum, I guess that is up to the forum owner. I see people listing their favorite knives and they don't all look super light weight or minimalistic. And one can backpack and be light weight and have a decent sized knife if they choose.

Bob,

I think the question is about compatibility of bushcraft and LNT. Not bushcraft and backpacking light.

the OP title says "backpacking and bushcraft", but its the same with bushcraft and LNT. One can do LNT bushcraft, just like you can do trashy backpacking.

For me, the overlap between UL backpacking and older-style, Boy Scout bushcraft skills (wood fires, fabricated shelters, lashing, etc) is more comfort that I can respond to emergencies or deteriorating weather by building a fire, shelter, or splint. If my concerns are lower, I don't pack "pack my fears" as much, and travel lighter. Still, I carry a second mini Bic rather than relying on making a fire bow.

What is less of a good mix in my experience is hunter-gatherer activities with UL backpacking. Especially, "I'll bring a fishing pole on the JMT so I don't need to pack as much food." Sure, I've cooked caribou and black bear in camp and once served it with a nice side of fern fiddlehead pesto I gathered and made, but have I've never seen the procured calories save enough weight compared to the time & effort to gather and prepare wild foods. I could contrive a Fall trip at certain elevations where a quart of berries could be picked in an hour each day. And Manfred & sons demonstrated impressive hauls of fish during their truly remote Brooks Range traverse. But for almost all trips, wild foods just aren't abundant or calorie-dense enough to help much.

Can you share some examples then? I get backpacking light and bushcraft. But I don't see how you can do LNT and bushcraft (to any large degree).

It's also a matter of definitions- plenty of people are LNT. Others say they are and never read the whole list of principles so think they are covered by not littering and burying poop properly, and don't quite get (or care) that they are doing other things wrong. (thinking here of a local meetup group claiming to adhere to LNT that has groups of 30+ going hiking….)

Heck, as someone who goes backpacking with people I haven't met yet, not sure we are all talking about the same thing when we say we are backpackers… lately I have been running into people who are loosely tying household items to Jansport bookbags and going for four days. this forum was clearly not on their reading list, and I would not call surviving on veggie puffs and pretzels while freezing all night in a six pound MallWart bag on a bathroom rug, backpacking – but they do.

I also wonder about bushcrafting skills, and whether I am on the same page with the folks who show up in backpacking forums talking about them. So I visited some survivalist pages to further educate myself and find that a basic bushcraft trip will include fire making, foraging, tracking, snaring, trapping and shelter.

I am left with the impression that the more rigid you are about LNT, the less bushcrafting you will do. Taking only pictures and leaving only footprints is incompatible with foraging, hunting, leaving fire rings and fire scars, chopping wood, etc.

My own compromises with the LNT philosophy: eating some berries once in a while, having a small fire once in a while, eating some trout, and sometimes using leaves for tp. Sure, you can do a little of both bushcraft and LNT, but that requires not being a purist. I estimate that I fall around 85% LNT.

Sure. One can pack a spindle, rod and find a stick for a bow. A sasquatch sleeping bag is basically covering yourself in leaves to provide insulation. Spread the leave back out when done. If you truly are creative you can come up with other ideas. These are just my initial thoughts.

This thread originally started as just comparing the two. LNT was another member to the thread, seems like a interesting addition to the topic. Thank for adding the afterthought.

It should be noted that many of the leave no trace principles are not about minimizing your impact on the environment, they are about leaving the wilderness all natural so that humans can enjoy it. Lighting a fire on granite an leaving a burn scar is not an ecological impact. A bunch of partially burnt wood and coals on the ground looks ugly but it's not actually hurting anything. A deer or a bear isn't going to care if you carve your name in a tree. Cutting sapplings and branches in a forest is going to impact the environment, but not necessarily a negative impact. Unless you are pouring soap into a stream or letting animals get into your food, most leave no trace principles are not related to preventing ecological harm. They are about preserving wilderness in ways that humans and only humans care about.

I agree on the LNT being so broad as to include offending other hikers without doing any additional harm to the environment. As a kid I learned we were to use a red tent as it was good in emergencies for signaling, you could find it coming back from a hike in a fog, good in deer hunting season to warn hunters of your presence and it made for added interest in photographs. Imagine my surprise when on a trip to the Wind Rivers a young backcountry ranger threatened us with fines if we didn't move our tent behind a hill where other wouldn't see it! She said if we had a green tent, we could have left it where pitched.

"Imagine my surprise when on a trip to the Wind Rivers a young backcountry ranger threatened us with fines if we didn't move our tent behind a hill where other wouldn't see it!"

Seriously???

We also had to promise to camp at least 2 miles from the cirque of the towers which added an extra 4 miles of hiking each day to climb.

Some of you are proving that no one reads all of the principles. They are at lnt.org.

In re: the original post – backpacking and bushcrafting are not the same, nor entirely compatible. Backpackers are usually expected to follow LNT or so one is led to believe by all published backpacking books and most forum members. And, while living off the land is sometimes brought up on forums by gung ho youngsters who want to travel some trail eating fish and berries and living off the land, the experienced backpackers immediately try to correct this before he can kill himself. Generally you are eating/foraging or hiking but not both. I know my limits; not John Muir, not going to pretend to enjoy living on pine needle tea and hard tack for a week. Nor am I aware of anyone who does more than kid about eating marmot….

Well, I'll be damned. They sound a lot like the rangers up in North Cascades NP in their concern for their area. I do have mixed feelings about it, though, especially from a potential SAR point of view. That said, my gear is all purposely very low visual impact, so I guess I'm not very consistent on that point.

Thanks, David.

I usually don't hike hard from sunrise to sunset. Fishing and foraging is fun to do in the evenings or a mid-day break. You can often find edibles next to trails because most hikers aren't knowledgeable about that sort of thing.

If you are hiking off trail all day you can hunt while you hike, just pay attention while you are heading towards wherever you need to go.

Justin: Agreed, the general incompatibility of foraging and BPing that I note is when you are trying for high mileage days. If you your mileage is done in a few hours, then foraging is a nice way to pass the time and (with some skill and experience) could reasonably reduce your food load. I can go places where even I am guaranteed of some fish and many more places where I can count on the plants. I've hiked with two people who could reliably get fish almost anywhere – they were that much better than 99% of fishermen out there.

And agreed, I can find edible plants along even the most heavily traveled trails (not that they add up to a lot of calories, though).

There was a group that sea kayaked from Homer to Seward, Alaska (pull up a map to see how truly expeditionary that is) over a few weeks. They were disappointed because they couldn't catch any halibut. Because they couldn't get their bait on the bottom. Because a rockfish always took it first. It seemed to me to be a good problem to have – I'd much rather catch a 2-pound rockfish on the first cast than deal with a 50- or 80-pound halibut in a kayak. I only use 15-pound test from my kayak because there's stuff out there I DON'T want to catch without a bigger boat. And a gaff. And maybe a gun.

David, don't forget to forage for wild berries. In California, all I can count on would be the Sierra Currents. Alaska has several types, but you have to get there before the bears.

–B.G.–

"In California, all I can count on would be the Sierra Currents. Alaska has several types, but you have to get there before the bears."

You can also find gooseberries, wild onions, pine nuts, manzanita berries, and chinquapin nuts to mention a few others; but none contain much in the way of calories, with the exception of the pine nuts. They sure do make nice accompaniments to a meal of fresh caught trout, though. Or on your cereal in the case of the berries and nuts.

Those spiky gooseberry things are the tastiest berries I've ever tasted.