MLD Duo XL Innernet in a Supermid?

In the product descriptions on the MLD site you are told which inners fit what.

http://www.mountainlaureldesigns.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=47&products_id=127

Thanks Ken, they both fit. I'm hoping to hear folks perspective on pros/cons of one versus the other, since they give slightly different benefits. It's splitting hairs I suppose . . .

It all depends on the number of people…I mean, if you think you might have a 4th person at some point, then take the 3-4 oz weight penalty of a full innernet. (which is what I need since I have my wife and kids on some trips.

Though, even with 3 people, I would still suggest the supermid innernet…otherwise the person in the back "row" has to climb over 2 people to try and get out.

If you have 3 adults…definitely the supermid innernet. If its a mix of kids adults…then….just depends on how many of each…

EDIT: I made a mistake here..the duomid XL is only for the "back half" of a supermid (Or..you could do a side half)…its only for 2…not ever for 3.

ANOTHER EDIT: MLD has changed the specs on their site. 12 oz for duomid xl, 17 for supermid innernet (cuben versions). Both cuben and sil are a 5 oz difference between the two, not 3-4.

Thanks John. I'm struggling with number of people. My wife and I are going to Yosemite this summer with our 9 and 11 year old for a five day trip. I've also got an MLD flat square cuben tarp.

I will use flat tarp solo with bivy bag – which I also have to get still and I have read your comments on my bivy post with thanks.

Just don't have innernets yet.

So I'm trying to balance weight with space and flexibility.

My options are:

1. Just Supermid with Supermid inner. Less weight, less space, easy set-up. Less cost.

2. Supermid with Duo XL for two. Flat tarp with MLD Serenity Duo insert for two. More weight, but more space, probably harder to set it all up on sites. A little more to spend. But more flexibility.

My concern about the Supermid inner is maybe during rain and dealing with gear, especially if it's packed with four people? I sort of feel the Duo XL will suit better for ultimately more lifetime use for just two – dirt vestibule for gear, rain entrance, etc..

My kids are only going to get bigger . . . and I'm leaning towards separating them, they get along but . . . kids are kids.

Thank you for everyone's insights, much appreciated.

David – do you already own the Supermid? Would you be using it year-round or just in the summer? I have the Supermid with perimeter mesh and find that maximizes the usable space for three plus dog. The Supermid innernet cut down more space than we liked, because the walls weren't completely taut. I do also have the Supermid floor, but I've yet to put it to use. The downside to the mesh is that I won't use it on frozen ground in the winter.

I would like to know a bit more about the Duomid XL innernet. Is it asymmetrical like the shelter? I haven't seen any pix yet.

I own the Supermid cuben, no netting.

The Duo XL innernet is meant to asymmetrical, one half of the Supermid, on one side of the pole only, I believe.

I sort of mocked up this use last summer with a cheap $20 hanging mosquito net meant for tropics or cabin use. It basically did one half of the Supermid for two. I used polycro for floor and it worked okay as a test. But it was fiddly and imperfect and unsustainable for the long term, hence the need to buy something now. We had other half for gear and shoes and whatnot. You can sort of make it out in the photo.

Here you see my set-up last summer with both put to use for four.

Oops….I made a mistake…I thought the duomid XL innernet was for the whole size of the duomid xl (so 3/4s of a supermid) but its only for half of a supermid, so 2 people.

Well, with that in mind, if you were thinking between a duomid XL vs a supermid inner….the supermid inner is the no brainer in my mind. double the size for 3-4 oz weight penalty? Absolutely!

That way….if there is a particular trip where you only have 3 of you total, you'll still be able to use the supermid innernet in style.

Now….I used a sil supermid with a bearpaw pyranet 4 with my family of 4…pictured kind of blurry here ->

It was plenty comfortable with my wife and I (in the middle on either side of the pole) with the kids on the farther sides. Kids were 5 and 7 there, though having them older wouldn't have been a problem either.

With 4 though…especially if they are preteens/teens, there isn't much, if any, space inside the innernet for gear. Most you can have in there is a bit of clothes items or shoes (though we normally kept our shoes right outside the innernet between the inner and outer fly…just enough room for shoes. Now, if you had 3…..no problem at all…all gear/packs, etc can come in with you.

Usually packs would be more or less empty at the end of the night….food would be hanging up, you are using your tent, sleeping bags, etc, so even if it was raining, I would just have them stacked up on a log or rock and have a poncho over them if raining….again, even with 4, you could have extra clothes inside the inner net with you.

While we are talking about cuben supermids and perimeter netting…check out this picture of what came in my mail yesterday!

Isn't the picture a beaut?

Ordered these two cuben supermids on 9/16/14….and got them 1/16/15, due to the "great MLD cuben fabric shortage of '14".

Construction quality is of course awesome with all MLD items. One of the supermids does not have perimeter netting (mine…I ordered a supermid innernet with a cuben floor that should be arriving in the mail on Tuesday), and the other does have a perimeter net (purchased for another forum member who allowed me to set it up just so I could take this picture).

Anyway…now I can compare how MLD does their perimeter net with how HMG does theirs.

First…about the weights. My supermid came in at 19.05 oz…which is about 8% overweight from the stated 17.5 oz listed on the sales page. Grr. But, the other supermid with the netting weighs 23.4 oz. Which….the mid was made at the same time as mine, so if assuming it also weighs 19 oz without the net, the net only added 4.4 oz. MLD states the perimeter net would add 8 oz. (maybe they used a heavier net before and haven't updated the site?).

So…I think the other user really lucked out on adding a perimeter net. Barely added any weight. MLD also adds a net vent covering that velcros into the vent, which was nicely done.

Comparing to an HMG Ultamid 2 that I had that had perimeter netting…its quite a bit different. MLD simply sews in 18" of netting while making the bottom perimeter hem. They also have snap buttons in the opening.

Compared to HMG…which adds a strip of cuben fiber tape 2-3 inches above the bottom hem, which angles the perimeter netting into the mid, and has a buckle type opening for the door.

And..the vents always have netting that has a cuben fiber "door' that Velcro closes shut.

The HMG system is probably more functional…but…not by much, and its definitely heavier with using the tape.

I think if you have adults primarily using the supermid, then the perimeter netting can be a good option (though it can be fiddly at times with the wind). Its definitely more minimal, and gives you lots more headroom.

However, it doesn't protect you from site drainage problems like an innernet would (like, if your site starts flooding a bit), so its almost like you still need a bivy.

Also, I like innernets better b/c it helps corral the kids. They move around so much and don't "fix" their position like an adult would during the night, so without an innernet they seem to start migrating so they are sticking half out of the tarp.

Awesome photos John. I really really like mine, its amazing. Thanks for all your help and to all who posted. Rgds, David

To continue the thread…and if you were wondering what new MLD innernets look like, here are a few pics. Just the other day I received my cuben supermid innernet. I was really impressed by the functionality and build quality. I wasn't impressed by the weight…16.55 oz, from the stated 14 oz.

However, after talking with Ron, they have now changed many of the weights on their site. Including the cuben supermid weight (17.5 to 19), and most of the innernet weights 1-2 oz. (like they changed the cuben supermid innernet from 14 to 16). I still think they are a bit optimistic on the cuben supermid innernet…mine weighs 16.55, but I have a jzipper on it, whereas new ones comes with inverted tzips, which weigh more (ron said they would be about 1oz more), so I would think new ones would weigh 17+ oz.

They changed the weights b/c of added features, like struts in the corners.

Anyway, on to the pics ->

The corner struts work surprisingly well. Very sharp corners. The mid panels also have mitten hooks, and I have a loop of shock cord on those, which pull the sides up. As soon as you have weight by the sides, it also keeps the sides up in a bathtub fashion by several inches.

You can see it better here….the shockcord keeps the side up to about the same level as the corners. As soon as you are "in" the innernet, the bathtub gets formed in the middle of the sides.

Unmentioned on the site mesh pocket…nice touch. I would rather have the pocket on the backside of the innernet though (where I would keep things like flashlight, camera, etc). Ask as an option if he'll move it.

Floor has cuben reinforcement instead of dyneema (no stitching). Very tough..several layers.

Going up the sides, where the mesh panels are joined together, MLD puts a layer of cuben fabric that is stitched with the mesh for strength.

Anyway, hope you enjoyed the pics!

John, thanks for the great photos. With your advice in mind, I ended up going for the Supermid cuben Innernet, and not the Duo XL inner. I think if I were only ever doing two people, the DuoXL would have been a great choice, with big vestibule dirt floor. But with variable numbers, the Supermid inner is a safer bet. I just put the order down last night, should be here in 10 weeks. Bad time for us Canadians with our dollar so low though!

Thx, David

I have received my cuben Supermid Innernet and it is 18 oz with all the cords and do-dads attached as it comes from MLD. It is a very nice looking piece of work, beautifully constructed. Lots of nice details – corners struts, reinforcement for poles in centre, zip design, accessory pouch,etc. The cuben Supermid itself is 19 oz with a a good bit of 3mm guyline attached to it. Hope that helps for comparing weights for everyone.

I have a supermid with the xl inner. Its very handy with a dog or in bad or buggy weather. I like massive covered porch on trips that are less weight sensitive.

Hi Rick,

Do you happen to have any pics of the Duomid XL inner under the SuperMid? I'm assuming the centre pole is offset toward the door. By how much? And how much usable space is in the inner net?

Only set up a couple times, no pictures. Pole is vertical in the supermid unless you kick out the bottom a little. Innernet takes back half, palace for 1, friendly for 2, not gonna try 3. Imagine a solo duomid inner scaled up for the super.

Rick

Thanks for the description, Rick. When we've slept two adults to one side of the pole, the pole has been offset about 12-18" to the other side. I'd imagine two in the XL inner will be quite friendly.

Just for comparison since we are talking weight my HMG Ultamid 4 is spot on listed weight at 21.8oz with guy lines and I had Bearpaw Designs do a half internet for it that is 18.1oz with a sil floor. The HMG is a little bigger than the Supermid so that accounts for some of the weight difference. It also has a overbuilt (IMO) come built to withstand paddles as a center support.