Volumetrically Dense Food?

Anything in powder form.
Also olive oil, peanut butter, nuttella, things like that.

I've reported this before. One friend of mine had studied this problem and came up with his own best solution. He wanted maximum calories to fit into a bear canister.

He went out and bought pounds and pounds of Robertson's Shortbread Cookies. He pulverised them with a rolling pin, and then poured the crumbs directly into a clean bear canister. There was absolutely no wasted space inside, and shortbread is particularly high in calories from saturated fat. It doesn't need or like cooking.

It might get a little old after a few days.

–B.G.–

I have gone for 5 days on peanut butter mixed with honey at a ratio of 2 to 1. It achieves a cookie dough like consistency, keeps in heat, doesn't freeze even in cold temps and it is quite tasty. Two weeks may be pushing it though.

Let me qualify this slightly. ;)

While I could simply eat sticks of butter, I'd like to try to keep the fat down to under 60% total calories, if possible.

The shortbread thought did make me think of these though, which had never occured to me until now.

http://www.bellplantation.com/products/pbthins-7oz-box-case.html

They seem to be ~130 calories per ounce, and are basically just shortbread. 35% fat.

John, that's kind of interesting. I'll have to consider that. The hesitation with pure PB is the fat content, but mixed with honey would jack up the carbs a bit. Good idea.

60% fat calories?

for every gram of butter, eat 1.5 grams of granulated sugar

or for every pound of butter, eat 1.5 pounds of sugar

or for 1000 calories, 2.34 ounces of butter and 3.52 ounces of sugar

etc.

+1 on the shortbread. I get Walkers. Two pieces for dessert every night.

I would suggest Quinoa cookies. They are loaded with peanut butter.

–B.G.–

So I read an (already second hand) account of someone who was doing a long caving trip and trying to fit all of his food into a 1-gallon nalgene container. He bought mostly freeze dried food, powdered it in a food processor, then repackaged in the smallest bags possible. He packed it full, then found a big wooden rod the same diamater as the opening and used it as a punch to hammer the food down farther. He then could add a little bit more food, then hammer again, then add a little more…

Apparently he lost quite a bit of weight. I don't remember the specific figures but I'm sure they double every time the story is retold, so I thought I'd leave out my guesses.

you can regain a lot of bear can volume if you just pour the granola in last, unbagged.
it's low tech, but i tried it, and it takes a honk'n Lot of granola to fill the gaps.

v.

"Anything in powder form."

+1 To include Nido full fat milk, also a good source of high quality protein and carbs; powdered sports drinks like Hammer Perpetuem; mashed potatoes, cous cous(not quite a powder, but very close). Artisana 1.2 oz. packets of nut butters(pecan, almond, macadamia, cashew) and coconut oil. 1 oz. olive oil packets. Nuts, coarsely ground. Granola, ground up with a rolling pin. Any variety of chips, coarsely ground. Dehydrated split pea soup, refried beans. Ensure or generic equivalents. Swiss Miss or equivalents. Dried fruits, pounded into a compressed mass.

Unless you are running on single digit body fat I would literally take as little fat as possible and lean more on carbs with some protein and use your body for fat. Said another way, use your body for the 60% fat. I do this on a regular basis on short duration trips. Would be a disaster for a thru but you are not heading out that long. I believe the quest for maximum caloric density is one of the worst bits of advice that is regularly given on this site. I drank the Koolaid early in my hiking career with less than ideal results on both the JMT and SHR. Since then I meter in primarily carbs at about 100 calories per mile or 300 calories per hour. I have done everything from Malto mix, Koolaid, Oreos, Pringles, chocolate cover donuts and little Debbie's brownies. Any of these provide plenty of energy. In fact little Debbie's brownie might just be one of the volumetrically efficient foods that I know of.

"Unless you are running on single digit body fat I would literally take as little fat as possible and lean more on carbs with some protein and use your body for fat. Said another way, use your body for the 60% fat. I do this on a regular basis on short duration trips. Would be a disaster for a thru but you are not heading out that long. I believe the quest for maximum caloric density is one of the worst bits of advice that is regularly given on this site."

+1 Now that it's been introduced. It's THE best approach for shorter trips, IMO. Count on using 1/2 to 3/4# of body fat(~1750-2625 calories)/day, depending on your hiking mileage, the terrain, your fitness, and your pace. The faster your pace, the less fat and more carbs you will burn if you get much above 3 mph, unless you are extremely fit.

If it's cold, maybe you want to eat more fat? It'll keep you a little warmer?

"If it's cold, maybe you want to eat more fat? It'll keep you a little warmer?"

Protein will keep you even warmer. It has a much higher thermogenic effect than fat or carbs per gram. For that reason, it is better to have a larger percentage of your protein at the end of the day.

you can regain a lot of bear can volume if you just pour the granola in last, unbagged.
it's low tech, but i tried it, and it takes a honk'n Lot of granola to fill the gaps.

LOL. I wonder how that would work with maltodextrin?

So the idea of powdering lots of different things is a good one . . . eating those powders is another matter. But one could borrow a trick from a caving friend of mine – use some sort of bottle to hold loose snacks. He was using a small nalgene to contain M&M's, but you could just as easily hold crushed potato chips in a gatorade bottle for a day. Or crushed trail mix. Or anything else you want to snack on.

On another note, I've had a lot of luck cramming snickers down the side of a bear can to fill up the empty space. I can usually fit a lot of them in around my food.

My list is pretty close to Tom's, minus the powdered drinks (preference for real food). Chips pack pretty well (I just crush them by squeezing the bag before pouring into ziploc) and still provide some crunchy texture that's satisfying. In my experience, refried beans don't pack densely (I've used flake form), but with an extra grind or crushing, they would do better. Dehydrated split pea soup is apparently easy to find in Tom's part of the world, but not where I live (will have to make own). Dried fruit has enough water in it that it's not super-dense calorically (and the commercial ones with very low water generally have ~ equivalent volume of air), but it's a place where I compromise a bit.

There's something I may not be understanding about:

"I believe the quest for maximum caloric density is one of the worst bits of advice that is regularly given on this site. I drank the Koolaid early in my hiking career with less than ideal results on both the JMT and SHR. Since then I meter in primarily carbs at about 100 calories per mile or 300 calories per hour. I have done everything from Malto mix, Koolaid, Oreos, Pringles, chocolate cover donuts and little Debbie's brownies."

Oreos are ~ 35% fat, original Pringles ~ 60% fat,chocolate covered donuts typically ~ 50% fat, little Debbie's ~ 40% fat. Sounds as if mixed macronutrient sources with good amount of fat worked fine, right?

Cheers,

Bill S.

@Hiking Malto: "Since then I meter in primarily carbs at about 100 calories per mile or 300 calories per hour."

Okay, let me see if I understand this. Bear with me, I hike towards the back of the pack sometimes.

< thread hijack >
Last hike I did 1.8mph on the overall average and my moving average was 2.8mph. Assuming I use the "overall average" speed, by your numbers it would be good to consume about 180 calories per hour (I presumed your average is around 3mph). A ten hour day would mean 1800 calories not including dinner at camp where ideally I'd add protein to my carbs (you need the carbs to process the protein and to refuel).

As I understand it, the proteins help keep me warm (thanks @Tom Kirchner), restore my muscles and slow down digestion so the carbs last all night.

Generally I aim at about 2800 calories per day but I guess my own body-fat would be part of that plus dinner and breakfast (a guilty pleasure of mine).

On the other hand I don't really go out enough to train my body to burn fat so the whole idea may be impractical and I should just listen to my body and eat as I need. :D

< /thread hijack >

Dried fruit has enough water in it that it's not super-dense calorically (and the commercial ones with very low water generally have ~ equivalent volume of air), but it's a place where I compromise a bit.

What about freeze dried fruit powders? I know you can get strawberry powder pretty easily, not sure about other fruits. You could then mix it with water to get your fruit fix.

It would get too monotonous. 4,000 calories of maltodextrin, whey, and beans and rice would be hard. I'm open towards leaning towards more carbs and protein, but not exclusively. This is also ignoring the fact that foods like beans or quinoa contain an insane amount of phytic acid. For that same reason, I can't healthfully eat handfuls of nuts all day, either.

I'm considering datrex ration bars. I'm sure the taste is lacking, but I could supplement them with better tasting options. They are around 50% fat and carbs. They are insanely dense, volumetrically. If I ate nothing but them I could easily fit 2 weeks of bars into a BV500, but, like I said, I want a tiny bit of variation.

Apparently hammer makes perpetuem in solid form.

http://www.hammernutrition.com/products/perpetuem-solids-reg-.ps.html?navcat=FUELS-ENERGY-DRINKS

As tablets they'd take up less space. Not as much air in the powder. Could always crush them up and put them in water.

The suggestions have been great! I greatly appreciate the input and comments thus far. The problem with a lot of the options I've came up with in the past is not the food, but the amount of those foods. I LOVE Sprouts peanut butter cup trail mix, but could I eat nothing but 1.5lbs of it a day (which would account to ~3000 calories)? Doubtful.

Could always crush them up and put them in water.

No, you don't want to do that. In fact Hammer advises against it. It's not like the powdered Perpetuem mix at all. I used these on a trip last summer. When you chew them they become both gooey & gummy in your mouth. I was surprised at how much work it was to get them down, and it wasn't very pleasant. I don't think mixing them with water ahead of time would improve the experience. And they're only ~33 calories per tablet (which are BIG) so I don't think the caloric density is all that great.

The reason I chose these was they take less space than an equivalent caloric amount of maltodextrin powder, which I had previously used for my "moving" calories mixed with water in a squeeze bottle. I was space-challenged in my bear can (the trip plan was 156 miles, Echo Lake to Tuolomne, with no resupply). Plus, no mixing and I saved 2 ounces by leaving the squeeze bottle at home.

The trip was cut short so I still have dozens of those pills left, but I don't think I'll take them again. Next trip I'll go back to the malto in a bottle.

Crushed potato chips do the trick for me. High in calories, low in volume. And it's where I get my salt. I like the Kettle brand, plain with sea salt.

"Oreos are ~ 35% fat, original Pringles ~ 60% fat,chocolate covered donuts typically ~ 50% fat, little Debbie's ~ 40% fat. Sounds as if mixed macronutrient sources with good amount of fat worked fine, right?"

Yes and Koolaid and Malto are 0 fat. Malto generally makes up at least half of my hiking calories. So in combination with the food listed above there is likely about 20-25% fat in aggregate which is much lower than any ratio of macronutrients that you will see related to backpacking. those high fat ratios are great advice for borderline starving thruhikers but not for short duration trips. Net, stop trying to maximize caloric density by adding fat. You may be taking that extra fat weight for nothing. but I will take Little Debbie's fat because I have found those brownies one of the easiest foods to eaton trail.

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