Leaving tarp at home

I do it on weekend trips frequently, but on a 3 or 4 day trip, i wouldn't. If you went to ground instead, i would say that if you have a highly rain resistant or waterproof bivy already, you could bring a mini tarp for the upper half of your body. One single 2 yard piece of ultra light Cuben would do as an emergency tarp/bivy combo, but these kind's of things are not ideal–especially not if you think there is any chance of rain–a large tarp makes a lot more sense.

Weather forecasting isn't an exact science. I always bring something capable of being used as an overnight shelter, even if it's just an emergency bivy or large trash bag.

In some areas, the lack of precip is more consistent though.

I shared a 5×7 space blanket for a two week trip. By accident, my friend brought the wrong tarp. We had a huge thunderstorm. So we just packed up our sleeping gear and sat it out. Worked fine, we even made hot drinks under the tiny tarp.

If we had two weeks of rain, it would have been no fun tho.

I think the OPs talking about being tarpless while in a hammock.

Where are you going?

Hammocking, you will have tree cover helping in most scenarios. But it still seems dodgy for more than a night or two.

What's the gear budget? A cuben poncho tarp would cover rain jacket + shelter for just a few oz.

thanks for the responses. yes, i was talking more about a summer hike along the AT in New England. So, with the availability of shelters nearby that would help with the decision. My tarp is about 12oz and froggs togg rain poncho 8oz and pack cover 4.3oz so I was just wondering if I could cut any or all of these since together that's 24oz of stuff!

But I guess I'd have to bring at least 12oz of these (either the tarp or the poncho at least). I may try to add some things to the poncho to turn it into a tarp if needed over the hammock in an emergency situation. probably not too difficult of a modification with some zing-it.

Skip the pack cover and use a compactor bag inside. 4 of the 4.3oz gone. drier and lighter.

Problem with AT shelters and rain is that everyone is going for them.. so having another option is necessary.

A cuben poncho most likely wouldn't give full coverage over a hammock set up, and the exposed hammock end(s) would pool/collect the water some, making for a rather uncomfortable night of sleeping.

Around here for local hikes I wouldn't even consider bringing a shelter. It just doesn't rain. But I'm a ground dwelling peasant and I always have a ground sheet, so that could be my backup.

"Skip the pack cover and use a compactor bag inside. 4 of the 4.3oz gone. drier and lighter.

Problem with AT shelters and rain is that everyone is going for them.. so having another option is necessary."

with this setup I would be worried about the pack actually getting wet some and becoming heavier? and things on the outer pockets getting wet as well. I currently have a have a GG Gorilla and a GG G4.

I have compactor bag inside but thought I may need the pack cover as well. But you're right it may be overkill.

thanks

I leave my tarp home most of the time when rain is not in the forecast.
I'll use my 3.5 ounce bivy but I always use it.
Bivy keeps moisture off the bag and from accumulating the weight from the moister.
The bivy also holds a pad inside without having to worry about sliding off it in the middle of the night (always happens).

I just bring a GG small groundcloth.
If it rains, the ground cloth goes right on top off me.
Never had any issues with the set up although the sierras have great predictable weather most of the time.

Going without a shelter just means being open to the possibility of having to bail early and having a reasonable plan for doing so.

"with this setup I would be worried about the pack actually getting wet some and becoming heavier"

4 ounces worth? unlikely. Plus you will have to carry that even on dry days where you'd only have a tiny bit of extra weight on wet days. Plus the back panel does not get covered and is probably more prone to absorbing water either way.

I have osprey exos and i don't put anything in the outer pockets that can't get wet. usually filter, ground sheet, spare snacks, etc.

NE is known for unpredictable weather, especially in the mountains. a few ounces is worth it when crap hits the fan.

As someone who works in the weather business forecast skills generally really start to take a dive by around day 4 . . .
So not taking any shelter at all on a 4 day trip seems pretty silly.

I you have reliable rain pants and shell, use a liner bag to keep your pack contents dry and only put things that can get wet in the outside pockets, take a space blanket, and you're willing to bail and be uncomfortable for a night if the weather turns bad, you can get away with leaving the poncho, tarp and pack cover.

Worse case scenario is you're two days into a four day trip, it will take you two days to hike out, and there's no room in the trail shelters. Weather hits. You put on your rain gear.

It it's night and you have to wait until morning to hike out, you put on all your warm layers first. Hunker down under the space blanket and start hiking out at first light. If it's day time, just turn around and start hiking out.

You'll spend at least one night hunkered down in your warm clothes and rain gear under the space blanket. Not comfortable and you probably won't sleep much, but it's only one night. You'll stay dry and warm enough until you hike out the next morning.

Personally, I'd take the tarp and poncho rather than rain gear, pack cover and space blanket. You'll be able to sleep securely. The poncho will keep you and your pack dry while you're hiking. You can wrap your pack in the poncho when you're in your hammock.

Depending on what part of the AT up here he is going to be on a poncho is a pain in the ass. The trails are rocky, steep and can be narrow. It could be sketchy not being able to see your feet when it is wet. I much prefer a jacket.

i'm thinking of making a 2mm poly tarp to go along with a bivy for long day hikes that go too long or overnights where i'm planning on an AT shelter.

A polycro ground sheet weighs like 2 ounces. You can always wrap yourself up in it to keep the rain off.

These conversations come up from time to time. "Should I leave my rain shell at home?" "Should I carry a whistle?"

The conversations follow a predictable path.

"Yes I do it all the time"

"No you'll shoot your eye out"

Then it ends with two camps chanting at each other

"Don't pack your fears!" vs "Stupid is as stupid light!"

What I can tell you, not being able to sleep due to the noise of your chattering teeth will certainly put hair on your chest. For me, a hundred days of carrying a sub 1 lb tarp is better than another night of freezing my ass off because I got lazy.

Eat fiber and drop a deuce in the pit toilet before you hit the trail. There are better ways to reduce your weight by 10oz.

Leaving the tarp at home in So. CA is easy. Standard practice with almost everyone I backpack with locally.

I've been caught in the rain once; slept under a 2' undercut on the side of a boulder. That was a memorable night, in a good way. How often do you get to crawl under a rock to sleep?

Got caught in snow in Joshua Tree; again, slept under a rock.

Fellow Southern Californian here, I generally don't bring a tarp unless the forecast tells me to. When I leave the tarp at home, I do carry an emergency blanket (SOL heatsheet). It's an extra two ounces at the bottom of my pack, and it keeps me covered in case there's an odd turn of events. I'm not a SoCal native, so growing up it was always important to have a rain plan. That hasn't quite been beaten out of me yet.

Always bad idea to not take waterproof shelter.

Twenty odd years ago I did the JMT with a bivy but no tarp. I didn't have really light gear then but I was being a minimalist when I could. It was a classic, heavier, bivy and worked fine the couple of times it showered, and snowed, in the night. However getting into camp when it was showering with nothing to do but stand around in it was the pits. Given a choice of the two I will always take a tarp first.

As for your original question, I think it depends on where you are going. In the Wind Rivers "not a chance of rain" is awful optimistic. I would carry shelter. In So Cal I say go for it.

"Always bad idea to not take waterproof shelter." False.

Not checking the weather forecast is always a bad idea.

20 years camping in Borrego, rained three times. Knew it was coming.

yes, it certainly does seem as there are two camps on this subject. Either way lots of good points and I guess I'll just have to play each trip by ear and the information at hand.

thanks everyone!
-The OP

" i was talking more about a summer hike along the AT in New England"

so why is there all of this talk about So. Cal?

The phrase "if you don't like the weather, wait a minute" is pretty accurate for NE and people get rescued all of the time for being unprepared (and some can be charged $ for it)

check out the varying temps at different elevations.. end of June.. 80 in town, 50 on top. with 45-65mph wind.

Sign that is seen all over White mtns.