Layering strategy for Winter Running

Going down to single digits, I do a compression top under a hoodie, normal running shorts and sweats, beanie, gloves and mittens over them.
None of my gear is made for running except the shorts and technically the gloves. Combined it's under 100 and I've never had problems.
I think many people really overthink this area of gear. You can honestly go to a thrift store and get what you need just fine if you had to. Any department store would work, too. Really, an entire kit will cost less than one piece of name brand gear.

Good running gear is worth it to me. I have gotten myself sick before by not dressing properly for my runs in the cold.

I dug up some numbers from other BPL threads, and decided to repost it here for convenience sake… Couldn't find any waterproofing data on the Squamish 2007 (Not that it's available anymore). From the data I'd say the Alpine Start looks like a superb running windshirt. The Arcteryx Squamish 2013 edition looks really good to if you plan on running in a lot of precipitation/very windy conditions. I was thinking that the RAB Vapor-rise is also an excellent running jacket, but upon further research (the measured CFM is very different from the manufacturer CFM) it seems like that fabric might degrade with use in terms of its wind resistance.

I know that my Polartec Wind Pro Hat does a pretty good job of breaking the wind on my runs, and it's CFM is around 60.

Windshirts for running (alphabetical order):

Windshirts for running (breathability – ie sorted by CFM from High to Low):

Windshirts for running (waterproofing – ie sorted by mm-H2O from High to Low):

I knew that was floating around somewhere :)

based on my own experience, 40-60-ish seems to be near that sweet spot of wind resistance and breathability- too high, the wind comes right through, too low and it doesn't breathe well

the Squamish looks good, the Boreas looks a little weak on water resistance, the Alpine Start looks really interesting :)

I agree Jon, the Arcteryx Squamish 2013 edition looks like the best of the mix. Would be perfect combined with a Paramo Pumpliner "directional" fleece.

Richard Nisely's research shows that about 35 CFM is the ideal for balance of meaningful wind resistance and maximum breathability.

According to him, and which seems somewhat counter intuitive off hand, if you go up a bit higher in CFM, like 40, 50, 60, etc, the extra breathability doesn't actually let it pass anymore significant moisture vapor. You would have to substantially increase the breathabilty for that to be the case, but then you lose out on wind resistance.

I don't understand how it works, but i mostly trust his findings.

So with such a good HH and that ideal CFM level, the A.S.'13 looks like a really good combo.

Does anyone have a link to that research?

Also I'd like to put together some info regarding dry times of base layers. Is there a standard of measurement for fabric dry time?

Looking through the LL Bean winter gear catalog I found a LOT of clothing for winter running (& snowshoeing, & XC skiing).

Very good stuff and a wide range of styles.

Trying to find a 2013 squamish and nobody sells it. Anyone know where I might get one?. If no-one sells it I'm just getting an alpine start.

Travelcountry has the last 2013s in the known universe… only XL, though.

http://goo.gl/kRmmTB

…if you don't mind white, the Wraith (LEAF version of the 2013 Gossamera Squamish), cheaper, all sizes: http://goo.gl/d8iP4K

I find windshirts, even made of Pertex Equilibrium (111 cfm by Richard Nisley) unable to transfer all vapour outside when you are running (and a little overheat).
Typical running warm shirts for winter have air permeability similar to Powerstretch.
But windshirts are useful when there is actually wind (or when you are running long distances in changing conditions). And I think Equilibrium is one of the best choices in such case. Other option that I liked was full-zip windshirt with windproof Pertex on the front panel, and other parts very air-permeable and stretchy (old Marmot Fusion).

And, there is a little problem – rather hard not to overheat in cold weather. It's cold outside at first, but then you are warming up, and during running you need very little insulation. Less insulation on you (lighter base layer) – less air permeable windshirt is sufficient.

Man! I just bought an alpine start. What exactly is the LEAF version? That color is pretty sweet.

Law Enforcement / Armed Forces. The hidden milspec versions of all of our favorite gear that allow these companies to stay in business.

Ethical considerations aside, if you're as tired of ginormous flashy chest logos as most of us are, Arcteryx LEAF, Granite Gear tactical, Nemo SHIELD and Patagonia Alpha are the way to go. Heavier, though.

Winter biking and XC racing clothes often have the front area shielded with a light windbreaker fabric so the "breathability" is all in the back of the garments.

I've found this works most of the time – barring a stiff wind from my "hind quarters".

My gear arrived in the mail yesterday and I took it out for a test run.

My layers were:
Baselayer – Capilene 4
Insulation Layer – IB 260 Half-zip
Outer shell – BD Alpine Start

I really, really like the Cap4. It was about 34F outside with a solid 9mph wind, and I felt much freer during my run. By that I mean I was substantially less bogged down by sweat and chills. For the purpose of winter running, Capilene 4 is simply the best baselayer I've ever worn. It breathes remarkably well, and is extremely warm for it's weight. Honestly, I feel I could have omitted the IB 260 mid layer.

The BD Apline Start is a terrific windshirt for running. Handled the 9mph wind like a champ. Didn't get any chills at all. It's also very breathable. Since the Alpine Start is not 100% windproof, every time the wind hit me, the air circulated a bit and got rid of that clammy feeling I get while running in a hardshell. Will be very interested to see how this holds up to stronger precip/wind.

BTW, I have heard a lot of people criticizing the design of the neck/hood/draw-chords in the Apline Start, and I wanted to say that they work for me just fine. I have a thin neck, so the neck fits me perfect (if you have a thick neck I could see it being a problem). The hood feels a *tad* restrictive, but it's only a tad, and by no means is the jacket unusable. The drawcords aren't the best design, but they work okay and are not a problem.

One very interesting thing I noted after my run: Some of my sweat wicked away into the outer layer of the Alpine Start. The DWR coating caused my sweat to bead up and roll off the jacket! Thought that was pretty cool.

In regards to the Arcteryx LEAF Wraith – I have read it is much bigger and heavier to accommodate body armor. Considering this do you think that would be a poor choice for a high aerobic sport like running?

I wanted to like the BD Apline Start, mainly because of the fabric. For me the shoulders were too narrow, or when sizing up, the rest too boxy. Hood wasn't too bad, but definitely not like the hood on my Rab Alpine Jacket (also very very breathable with its Pertex Equilibrium fabric) which I like better to trail run in.
http://rab.uk.com/products/mens-clothing/windshell/pertex-equilibrium/alpine-jacket.html

For winter I prefer the Montura Training Anorak, made for Skimo / Winter racing purposes. Incredible hood, great protection, great venting options. Zipper that goes down to your belly button that you can open from the bottom. Thinner/thicker fabrics to max protection and ventilation at the same time. Big zip pulls for use with gloves, stretch pocket below belly button for stowing gloves or gels or I guess ski skins.
http://www.planet-endurance.ch/product/montura-training-anorak-celeste-men/

with those temps and even lower, my experience is the Cap 4 is more than sufficient alone (layered w/ a windshirt)

I live in central VA and most often hike near Shenandoah National Park area because it's the closest semi-real wilderness hiking area to where i live (and it's still almost a 2 hour drive), but with that said, much of the area is pretty gentle in comparison to many other places.

If it's 34* F, the Cap 4 or MEC T3 hoodies i have plus a windshirt, are more than enough, despite that i'm hiking and not running, and despite the relatively low elevation gain/loss. But then again, i do run warm. (i'll also wear shorts at those temps on day hikes).

I can do the above down to around 20*F, but i will say that i do tend to get a little chilled on straight aways and down hills.

If you start to do serious winter backpacking where you are out for overnighters or more when it gets near 0*F or below 0*, you will want to dial things in where you sweat as little as possible. This means being a bit chilled sometimes, but it is worth it, at those temps you definitely want to minimize your sweating as much as possible.

"Does anyone have a link to that research?"

Not off hand, but i should point out that this was related to backpacking/hiking and not running. It may be different for running. A much more breathable "windjacket" might be better for running?

got my Alpine Start today- love the Schoeller material, but my Large fits more like a Medium :( – I'll send it back for a XL