Almost SUL — Help me make the cut.

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/sul-mindset-jordan.html#.VH03Qr5g5nE

> http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/sul-mindset-jordan.html#.VH03Qr5g5nE

Yes, an excellent piece. And the reason I started backpacking again–the mindset that is, not the article itself. Discovering I could go out on my own without a bunch of stuff was liberating.

I guess I'm really asking what others do differently that I can learn from. What can simplify further?

Ditch the dry bag, liner is plenty.

Plus what John says below. agree 100%

Some easy changes:

Pack liner trash bag at 75g seems heavy. What about a nyloflume bag? 1 oz for packliner size. I think Lite Trail still has some
Dry bag: not really necessary, could probably leave at home
Chest pack: not really necessary
Food bag: Silnylon stuff sack works fine, but the ZPacks blast bag is nice
Pillow: 40g of ziplocs? Seems fussy to me. I like whatever clothes I have on top of my shoes
Sleeping socks seem heavy. I am fine with ankle height wool socks down to the mid teens
Water bottle: there are lighter 1-L wide mouth bottles out there, usually can be found in the organic section of your grocery store
Cooking: I think an Esbit Ti Tri stove and foil windscreen is lighter. No fuel bottle too
Reflectix food warmer: is this necessary? With lows around 40 degrees (assuming by your quilt), I don't think it's needed

Maybe add in an emergency poncho to wear if your poncho tarp is set up. Some weigh 1-2 oz, you could use it in a pillow too

Patagonia Tropical Flats Pants are 8 ounces, very breathable, and shed dirt: -5.0oz
Go commando: -3.0oz
GG LT4’s: -7.6oz

A reduction of 15 oz, +/-.

I would trade the steripen for aquamira only if it makes sense for where you're planning to hike. If you're hiking somewhere with plenty of water sources I'd stick to the steripen, because with aquamira the contact time becomes a big hassle if you're using it several times per day. So you could lower your base weight but end up carrying more water and cancel out the benefit (although it would still get you a mean sub 5 pounds on your baseweight spreadsheet…). You could see how much a sawyer mini would save you, that's another option.

I'll second the foodbag suggestions, you need a change there. You don't need to go all the way to the Zpacks cuben bag, just swap the Flyweight for a plain old silnylon stuffsack.

Or just hang your whole pack! If you're SUL, there's not a lot of gear you need to keep near your sleeping area. Just get two odor resistant bags from LiteTrail, put your food in one and line your pack with the other. When it's time to hang the food, keep your extra gear in the packliner on its own, put the food bag inside your pack, and hang it up. Easy peasy.

If you do this, you can't put your pack under your legs, so keep the foam pad full-length. That's a really light pad though, I wouldn't worry about it.

7.41 oz (Flyweight) + 2.65 oz (trash bag) – 1 oz (large nylobarrier bag, pack liner) – 0.45 oz (medium nylobarrier bag, food bag) = 8.61 oz saved

Thank you!

Foodbag: oooh! NyloPro.
Chestpack: Gone, ultimately belongs in luxury. It's main job is the camera.
Drybag: Gone.
Pillow: Yes, too fiddly. Why didn't I think of shoes?
Steripen: Keeping. I hike where there's plenty of streams. It makes total sense.
Esbit stove: In my to-make box with the left over turykey pan. Should smell nice. :P

Richard,

Congrats on your push to SUL. I believe you can find a way if you are willing to continue to play with it and try new things and think outside the box. Often our ideas are lighter on paper, yet don't work out in the woods, therefore, it becomes a trial and error sort of discovery. Here a few ideas to think about. I'm sure there as others, and, these specifically have helped me drop down to sub 80 oz. Maybe something here will work for you as well.

I use a very lightweight trash can bag for my pack liner (0.3 oz). It's very thin yet works fine if taken care of. Worst case they are cheap and you can bring a new one each trip.

For my food bag and hanging system I am using some Zpacks 1.25mm dyneema line, 0.51 CF rock and stuff sack (0.5 oz)

See if you can swap out some of your 0.2 oz Ti stakes with some Terra Nova 0.035 oz skewers. With my specific tarp and bivy setup, I was able to use four of them in locations where I don't need the beefier ones regardless to ground conditions or wind issues. For insurance, just set a rock on it.

A MLD CF Bug BIvy (5.0 oz) has more room than standard bivies and is lighter.

I love the combo set up of a GG Nightlight pad and a slightly modified MLD 1/8" full length CCF pad (total for both 7.7 oz). The 0.75" thick GG gives me some good comfort with proper site selection and the MLD gives me some flexibility of using it many ways (folded in half for max lower body ground warmth, folded in half for more upper body cushion, full length for a little of both)

Bring only 1 pair of extra socks and select a thinner and ankle height version for the backup (1.6 oz). I wash my first pair and wear the lighter ones while waiting for the other to dry.

Use a 1L disposal water bottle (0.8 oz).

Use a 2.5 gallon Ziplock bag (with a zip closure) for your pillow. The bag can also be used when needed to carry more than 1L of water. (Note – this is a recent addition to my SUL kit and has not been fully field tested due to winter arriving here in Colorado.)

Attach a Sawyer Mini (1.7 oz) directly to your water bottle. Lighter than the Steripen and backup batteries (4.2 oz) and, for me, faster and with less potential malfunction issues as when I tried the pen.

MSR folding spoon (0.3 oz) over the spork (0.6 oz)

Very minor and…….Use 3ml bottles instead of 6ml if possible.

If you are wearing full length clothing you might not need sun screen. Take SPF lip balm and use it for both if needed.

If you like Esbit, look into the Trail Design Caldera Cone gram cracker and Foster can set up (2.6 oz for stove, pot, lid, wind screen, and a Zpacks CF stuff sack).

I think you have done an amazing job getting your kit down as low as you have given the weight of your backpack itself. Packs are personal so I understand you may not want to switch and you are close enough that I believe you can still find a way to sub 80 oz while using it. If you do go the route of a lighter pack, I'd highly recommend the Zpack Zero. I have used 2 of these and love them. The latest version weighs 5.4 oz.

Best Wishes.

Edited for typo on water bottle weight.

You can knock off 1 oz right away by switching to the Evernew EBY-265 400 ml ti cup (1.7 oz)

If using Esbit, you can cut a wind-shield that measures 17" long by 4.25 " high from the bottom of a very large disposable aluminum baking pan. Mine weighs .5 oz. It won't hold up to the higher heat of alcohol though. The shield is high enough for the shorter but wider EBY-265. Way more rigid than foil!

An Esbit foldable stand weighs .4 oz.

Mini Bic (full) weighs .4 oz

So Grand total for cup, shield, stand and lighter is 3 oz.

SHELTER: An MLD Cuben Poncho/Tarp comes in at around 4.5 oz.
Also, a Borah Gear Cuben Bivy would be about 2 oz less.

As for water purification, you can order a pair of 10 ml dropper bottles from MLD (4 gm each) and simply carry a smaller amount of Aqua -Mira than the standard bottles that come from the manufacturer. You can put probably a weeks worth of treatment in the 10 ml bottles and they'll weigh about 1 oz for both.

>>>As for water purification, you can order a pair of 10 ml dropper bottles from MLD (4 gm each) and simply carry a smaller amount of Aqua -Mira than the standard bottles that come from the manufacturer. You can put probably a weeks worth of treatment in the 10 ml bottles and they'll weigh about 1 oz for both.<<<

+1

And to make it even more convenient, also use a 3ml dropper to make a pre-mix for each day. In most areas where water sources are reliable, this amount is just about right for 1 person for 1 day.

Using anything battery-dependent you need a back-up system anyway.

Awesome stuff here, thanks.

I’m trying to make the most of what I have before replacing my gear. But a few things stand out.

I’ve never used esbit. Yesterday I played with it and am satisfied it’s worth testing in the field. Solid fuel tabs and dispensing with the bottle are very attractive. Not to mention that the bottom of an inverted soda can with mesh should make a good burner.

Sawyer keeps getting my eye. Using it inline with a drinking tube and soft bottle should reduce the time I spend stopping to drink. Even for a minor weight sacrifice the efficiency gained should be worth it.

Richard, I find Aqua Mira to be way faster than filters.
Just carry the little bottles in an outer pocket so you can get to them easy. Then take them out and put 7 drops of each component into a cap and wait 5 minutes. Drop it into your water bottle and move on. 15 minutes later it's ready to drink.

Every filter I've ever seen takes time. Even worse is the fact that the darn things clog up. Sure you can backflush the Sawyer Mini (and you'd darn sure better each and every time), but the syringe adds another ounce of weight. By the time you've done all that I've moved on down the trail.

The inline tube/filter sound good, but you'll likely work harder sucking on the tube than you will hiking. And when you consider the weight of tube, filter and syringe, you're looking at 3 oz heavier than Aqua-Mira. I personally like to open a large mouth water bottle and guzzle down a half liter or so.

I'd like to hear what other hardcore SUL summit and distance hikers have to say about chemical vs filter.

And as far as Esbit, it provides more BTU per weight than anything else. About double that of alcohol.

Monte, it's an interesting point about the Sawyer.

The place where I feel that I lose more time is in the actual drinking, not in preparing. Taking a break by a water source is very pleasant. Stopping to drink and eat too often can be troublesome. Fewer snack stops can mean longer breaks to just chill and enjoy the environment.

Part of what I'm looking at is better ways to access my snacks and water.

I have Aquamira and little bottles so I may as well give it a try. It's been a while since I used them so with more experience, and better access to my water, Aquamira may now fit my needs better.

Even faster and probably a little lighter are the chlorine dioxide tablets. They save the hassle and wait of mixing.

The treatment time on Aqua Mira (and any chlorine dioxide method) depends on temperature and water condition. I think that's mostly just because crypto is hard to kill. I guesstimate that I'm probably more likely to get crypto from the salad bar or a restaurant though. :D

I come from the perspective of not wanting to "pollute" and alter the taste of wilderness water with chemicals. I generally use either the Sawyer Squeeze or the Steripen Opti, or I often don't treat the water at all. The weight and backflushing on the Squeeze don't bother me, but it is a bit more fiddling around than I'd prefer. I've started using the Steripen a little more, and it's the only thing I take if temps will be below freezing–don't want the Squeeze to partially freeze and become unnoticeably ineffective. My backup is either no treatment or chlorine dioxide tablets, although I also tend to carry a set of backup batteries too.

Yeah, the treatment time of aqua mira depends on whether you’re worried about crypto, as well. Technically the “7 drops for 15 minutes” isn’t shown to be always effective against crypto and giardia. This recent thread has a lengthy discussion of the topic which there is no need to repeat here.

Personally I’ve gotten heartburn when I use aqua mira at full dose. I also notice the taste at full dose. In the desert I mostly do low-dose, long contact time, so it’s not an issue and doesn’t affect the flavor. Next summer I will get either a sawyer or a steripen.

Okay, I'm just going to troll this thread…

Now that Polar Pure is back on the market how does it measure up? I read somewhere that it doesn't kill Crypto. It's labelled as a disinfectant not a purifier.

Polar pure is iodine in a crystallized form. It's a pretty neat concept, but heavy, and iodine is not effective against crypto.

I have a bottle of the stuff that I've thought about giving away to someone. But I feel like I'm doing a disservice to the world by doing so. I think it's just gonna go in the trash next time I move. If you can't tell, I'm not iodine's biggest fan . . .

Right, iodine (which Polar Pure is) doesn't kill crypto. But, neither does Aqua Mira the way most backpackers use it. :)

Here's a good summary of treatment methods:

http://www.hikelight.com/18ultralightbackpackingwatertreatment.html

An authoritative summary:

http://www.cdc.gov/healthywater/drinking/travel/backcountry_water_treatment.html

n/m opps, replied on wrong thread.

I have used Esbit tablets before and one day realized I only need three rocks and not the stove (or any of its' UL reincarnations).

I you feel bad about a tablet on the dirt, bring the cut off top lid of a soup can.

My $0.02

What do you do when there is a lot of snow on the ground?

I hear theres talk of lowering the SUL barrier another 8oz.

You will need to find more to cut.

Okay. I set myself up for that.