Visited the new Arcteryx store in Portland

well the thing to remember about dead bird is that they arent a canadian company anymore as much as some folks like to think it is …

they are owned by a finnish company that also owns saloman, wilson, suunto, etc …

the vast majority of their products except for some of the top end rain jackets, their harnesses and their LEAF items are produced in china, bangladesh, el salvador, etc …

ill repeat … they are the new north face … just more upscale … and as i said that doesnt mean their gear doesnt work fine, the north face produces some gear that is used in the most heinous conditions …

it simply means that any "aura" about the company isnt justified anymore … they are becoming a mass market upscale brand as their shift to "not finding enough folks to make their gear" excuse shows

canada goose got bought out partly by bain capital (of romney fame) last year, yet so far they are still committed to making all their jackets in canada

and "made in canada" doesnt mean unreasonable prices … the MEC T2/T3 base layers are all sewn in canada at a much cheaper price and comparable quality to patagucci

now like i said i use alot of made overseas gear … but if you are paying premium prices then arguably you may prefer gear that is not made in say bangledash… for example DMM climbing gear (which i also use) carries a premium price, but all their metal goods are made in wales UK

if you go through the list of what makes dead bird "better" or "special", you quickly eliminate the reasons

– quality … other companies such as westcomb, patagucci, MH, OR, etc … have just as good functional "quality" … folks rave about the dead bird quality but then say in the same sentence (including here) about how good their warranty is because they had issues …

– design … thats in the eye of the beholder, as the OPs criticism of the hood shows … lets just say that the top alpine climber (perhaps) in the world and piolet d'or winner helps design MH gear …

– durability … my 3 dead bird harnesses i blew through and the packs my partner and i shredded beg to differ … their jackets generally are quite durable but even then ive seen failures

– warranty … not even a question, OR has a better stated warranty and they back it up even if a dog eats your jacket (i can post examples) … MEC and EB have a no questions asked walk out with a new one warranty

– fit … highly personal … everyone has different body types … i have dead birds that fit me perfectly and others ive tried not one bit …

again … thats not to say dead bird is bad or poor gear .. it works fine generally … its just not functionally better than any other good brand …

dead bird has some top notch sponsored climbers … but one thing youll noticed is that these climbers also partner with other climbers who are sponsored by other companies who get up the same routes just fine

their marketing however is top notch

;)

Heres my partner and i on an easy climb last week … We were both wearing dead bird items

Hes also got a cerium lt in the pack for those november belays

We were discussing about how fast his dead bird cierzo pack blew out in a week of climbing … And how the MEC packs for half the price were better … And hes a big dead bird fan and user

" but if you are paying premium prices then arguably you may prefer gear that is not made in say bangledash"

I'd rather pay a premium price for functional and qualitative gear made in Bangladesh then a much lower price for non-functionall and/or non-qualitative gear made in US, Canada, UK, … :-)

'd rather pay a premium price for functional and qualitative gear made in Bangladesh then a much lower price for non-functionall and/or non-qualitative gear made in US, Canada, UK, … :-)

my made in canada MEC T2/T3 layers are quite functional at a lower price than the dead bird and patagucci equivalents … and enough folks on BPL have em now that im sure many would agree

just because its not dead bird doesnt mean its not functional or quality =P

and its the dead birds made in china/bangladesh/etc … definitely DONT carry a lower price than other goods that are elsewhere including north america

just like the 800$ ceres jacket …

http://arcteryx.com/Product.aspx?language=EN&gender=mens&model=Ceres-Jacket

its a triumph of marketing to convince folks to pay a premium for bagladesh made products !!! … that almost sounds like the clothing fashion industry

;)

No, of course not. I will buy as easily cheaper stuff as it checks ALL te boxes of my criteria for it. But I am as critical for expensive stuff.
And when I think it checks all those, that doesn't mean I will buy that as soon as possible. First, I investigate if there aren't things I've missed. And yes, that almost allways means it still will take months/years before I buy it.

well its time for another humorous but absolutely true dead bird story !!!

my climbing partner who luuuvs dead birds … we got to the base of the climb and she realized she wasnt wearing her favorite dead bird top and jacket …

she starts panicking muttering over and over again "I CANT CLIMB IM NOT WEARING ANY DEAD BIRDS !!!"

then she starts thinking about it and then breathes a sigh of relief

"Im wearing dead bird underwear !!! … im good to go !!!"

also i pointed out to her that she had a dead bird chalk bag as well

;)

To the best extent possible and all things being equal, I try to buy local, then Washington, then US, then wherever.

But not all things are equal. I really wish I could comfortably fit in a Feathered Friends bag. Tried it and not only was I uncomfortable, but the zipper snagged several times. Don't have this problem with my made in China Montbell bag. Doesn't mean that Feathered Friends sleeping bags are low quality but they don't work for me so I can't support a Washington State business in this case. In their defense, I'm not their average customer.

We received a fairly expensive widget at work. The manufacturer really wanted us to know that it was Made in the USA as there were several stickers on it saying as much. They paid a few of my co workers to come in on their day off to assemble it. Nothing lined up and the final assembled product is far from square or plumb. It's a bolt together product so there wasn't too much to screw up during assembly.

It's great to sell a product that's made in the US or Canada and I'm willing to pay a premium to support local and national businesses but you have to deliver the goods. My Arc'Teryx purchase is a single Squamish but it's a wonderful windshirt; the hood is fantastic. After trying on a few of their shells in the Seattle store, I'm a believer and will eventually upgrade to one of their Alpha GTX pro jackets. I've tried a few jackets and none of them fit as well.

I like to buy from U.S. or a country that has approximately balanced trade with us, like Canada.

Not because the U.S. is "exceptional", but because it's bad for both our economies.

But, hypocritically, I do sometimes buy cheap Chinese elelectronic stuff.

If there were LED lightbulbs made in U.S. (or Canada) i'de buy them. Since they're made in automated factories, labor cost is low, so the difference in price is artificial.

Scott: Which jacket were you looking at? I've had my Cerium LT hoody for over a year, and the hood with a halo (rear) cinch cord does the job just find in the wind. Trust me, I'm in Saskatchewan. I know cold wind ;) Besides, it's not a parka, so if you're in serious wind, a shell should be expected to be used anyway.

Arc'Teryx has some gnarly hood design. I never worry about shoulder checking in my Squamish Hoody when I have it tightened down while biking.

Granted, Arc's products are more expensive than what most people can (or need) to spend in order to realistically suit their needs. That being said, I still feel like their prices are usually close to reasonable for the level of design and features seen in their products when compared to other big market competitors. ***Admittedly, I don't have much knowledge about pricing/value of smaller companies (or ones we just don't see up north), so my argument can only go so far in this regard.

I've heard many comments regarding their use of factories outside of Canada, but Arc seems to be responsible compared to other companies by providing an 'equivalent level of pay' for their workers so that they have a similar economic standing to Arc's Canadian employees. Sure, it's cheaper over there, but the workers aren't being ripped off. I could see people wanting lower prices if production costs less, but I don't see the finish product being affected very much. I'd say if people want to maximize value, they're looking in the wrong place, but the quality is (usually) there. The biggest issue that arises from Arc'Teryx becoming a popular brand name, is wasteful trending consumerism. Patagonia says "If you don't need it, don't buy it", so maybe we shouldn't.

I'm not saying they're the best brand out there, but I don't think they need a lynching.

With regards to the store's staff, that sounds like an unfortunate case of mismanagement within the store.

I don't know, maybe I'm missing some perspective. I'm trying not to fanboy over Arc'Teryx, but in the proper context, I don't see many issues with their company and products. Any thoughts?

I went through the Arcteryx store in Seattle a while back. Obviously it is aimed at a more casual crowd then folks who use their cloths in the field. Sure, their brand is now popular. Still, I have two Arcteryx pieces I swear by; the Squamish jacket and Rampart pants. Both were purchased at REI at 1/2 off. The Ramparts have 3 full seasons of use and show virtually no wear, and the Squamish is very versatile for its low weight. Same holds true for Patagonia stuff. I think there is a reason these companies have built such strong brands and widened their appeal. You just have to cut through the retail noise and look for deals on their products that really work.

I'm totally looking forward to trying out the upcoming Arc'X Bora Mid hiking boots with the removable liners. The cut and construction of Arc'X stuff is simply beyond comparison, and yes, you pay for it. Totally up to the individual to decide it it's worth the price. Sometimes I say yes, sometimes I say no. Luckily I live in rural Alaska where my brand choice is not cynically negatively influenced by what some urban hipsters adopt. I just wish they weren't locked in with Gore and could use some eVent or even better, Neoshell.

Wait…..Calculus was dry last week?!?!

calculus dries after a few days and can be climbed in the winter if you are willing to deal with some dampness

theres quite a few multis that are dry in squamish with a dry spell

again from last week … and i was wearing dead bird (and other) gear on evening november climbs

im getting holes in my dead bird rampart pants from climbing this winter … to be fair im getting them in my prana zions as well

as i said before, i own and use em quite a bit … and it the same as any other good outdoor brand

;)

more fun stuff about dead bird …

their first product was a harness which they still make … they also sold webbing in the 90s which they dont anymore

from 90s MEC catalogs …

their old softshells are bomber and still going strong, their new lightish gear doesnt have the same durability you simply cant for the weight savings these days

here the tag from one of my old ones …

note that they were made in vancouver, bc canada back then … and they even list the phone number which still works !!!

;)

"here the tag from one of my old ones …"

Gamma SV ?

Fun facts about the Gamma SV:

They don't make them any more.
The last iteration was cut baggy and the torso was long. Early versions were specifically cut short so as to not interfere with a harness.
They switched the fabric to something with less insulation and wind resistance because the old fabric faded too quickly.

See where this is going?

to be honest, i dont recall what model

i also have a gamma SV hoody thats about 6 years old … the one with polartec powershield and the inside as fuzzy as a bear … it isnt as breathable, not a much as my older dead bird

;)

edit … just looked it up looks like that it is a pre-china gamma jacket

I don't buy Arcteryx gear because it's trendy – I buy it because of the fit, the construction, the durability (haven't had a piece fail yet). That includes a Thorium down hoody that has been well used for the past year, a squamish windshell that is used almost daily for running, hiking, climbing, and biking, and a pair of stinger bibs that I got on sale that are insanely burly and blow all other bibs I've tried out of the water.

Like Philip – living in Alaska insulates me from most urban trends. Do tons of people wear Patagonia and Arcteryx without ever really stepping foot outside a city? Yes. But I personally like to reward companies who produce great (not just serviceable) gear with my return business. Is all of Arcteryx's gear fantastic? Probably not. But the pieces I've purchased were well worth the price for me.

Based on the label, and more specifically the spandex-content of 20%, my guess is a Gamma SV as that wass their only Powershield with 20% spandex in it.

A Gamma SV hoody: nice as that was only available for a few seasons. :-)

This has been an interesting discussion to follow, with many valid points made by various members. I'm wondering if a clue to the missing hood draw cord might actually be in the original post– the draw cord was not present on the _"ultra light" down jacket. Could it be that perhaps some manufacturers have become a little too responsive to the weight saving concerns of their targeted audience? Just food for thought. I have never owned any Arcteryx gear, but have been wearing Patagonia gear for about 35 years. I still have capilene baselayers and fleece that were made in USA and are still going strong after many hundreds of days worth of use (outside, hard physical labor type use). The stuff just lasts. I have some Carhartt that is still hanging in as well.
I am mostly a recreational hiker/backpacker these days–certainly not a mountaineer–but I appreciate the quality, fit, durability, and functionality of gear by Patagonia. I live in the stuff. I'm not made of money, but I look for good sales and save my money to buy pieces I want.
I understand the concern that some manufacturers may redesign products to appeal to less active consumers, but I'm not sure I've seen much evidence in some of the top brands. In fact, I often see reviews that complain that the new version of an old favorite is "too technical"–ie the redesign of the Patagonia R1 pullover.
As to the issue of hipsters and tourists buying Archery, Patagonia and the like to wear while walking around town–well why not? I bet they like to be comfortable/warm/dry too. And when they get tired of it and send it off to the thrift shop, the rest of us get to buy $200 jackets for $3, etc. Who knows, maybe one of those "hipsters" might get inspired to go out and use the gear the way it was meant to be used.

I've found this thread to be both informative and wildly entertaining. To address the OP, I am really surprised that the jacket you're using didn't have a drawcord at the hood. Are you positive that you have the Cerium Hoody and NOT the Thorium AR hoody (which actually lacks the hood drawcord)?

I've thoroughly tested the Cerium LT hoody- both the production model and the prototype- both had an impeccable "ballcap" hood drawcord that actually doesn't scrunch your ears, unlike other hoods.

As for dead bird being the new TNF- that's quite the exaggeration. Like TNF, Dead Bird is being adopted by urbanites- but that doesn't mean that their products are going to shit. TNF sells (literally) 100x the amount of clothing as Dead Bird, both in volume and product line. They are more like Patagonia than they are TNF, where their popularity among urbanites is promoting the company to made more 'affordable' and 'less technical' apparel- the more 'technical' the piece, the smaller the market, and thus, the high price to account for less volume- you can see this in various manufacturers today.

It is worth noting that Arcteryx, by and large, has it's own factories in Asia that develop ONLY Arcteryx gear. This allows the folks who work in those factories to focus on making SPECIFIC products, for one SPECIFIC brand- it greatly helps with QA….

As for the Deadbird gear- most of it is great stuff, primarily their packs and shells. I've had a Theta SV for years- I've had probably 600+ days in it- it is my hiking/backpacking shell (I know, you BPlers will cringe), my ski shell and (often) my climbing shell. It is hands down, by far, the most durable and thoughtfully designed piece of gear I have owned. It's also made in China.

Note: I used to work for Backcountry.com and purchased 100% of my Arcteryx gear at a significant discount, but I think that their GTX shells and packs are worth every penny, and last a lifetime.