most miserable cold night!

"I'd blame the pad" +1

I am an average temp sleeper but I also go a bit conservative with my bag/quilt – but as another poster mentioned I got the MOST improvement from upping my pad to a downmat UL5 (from an r=3.1 pad).

Funny story:
I was backpacking with my dad in Alaska back in the early 90s and our last night, on our way from the Kenai back to Anchorage, we decided to do this quick hike up to a glacier, sleep on top, then hike back down and drive the rest of the way to the airport.

The hike up was gorgeous, the glacier was AMAZING, and we set up on a fabulous open spot with a great view of the expanse of the glacier spread out before us. Ahhhhh….

I was sleeping on a thin short thermarest self-inflatable from the 80s, in a synthetic 15 deg bag. I was toasty!
But some time in the night I woke up freezing – holy crap was I shivering! I was SOOOO cold!!! I mean painfully cold. I pulled my pack under my feet, I burrowed into my bag, I even cuddled up to my dad…i have NEVER been so cold before. But then I had to pee, and I held off because wow it must be so cold outside, there's NO way I want to get up and get out in this! but then I couldn't wait any longer, threw off the bag and unzipped the tent…… It was completely warm outside. And I mean nice and warm….

Then I realized that I was sleeping on a slab of ice with no real insulation under me. Duh……

A friend of mine did a winter trip in BWCA in Northern MN (many, many years ago) and the forecast was off by 40°, in the colder direction. They knew it was cold, but were sleeping in a snow cave so they didn't even know how far off it was until they came back out (and they were cross country skiing, so staying warm on the move wasn't a big issue).

Others have mentioned lots of great advice, but one particular one that always helped me was making sure I was warm before I lay down and try to sleep. If I lay down feeling cold, even if my gear is overkill it still takes me a really long time to warm up, and naturally this is even more true when the temps are at or under their temp rating. Layering up helps here too as it helps retain more of the heat from jumping jacks or whatever you do to warm up before climbing into the bag or quilt.

I love my BA Q-Core SL pad but in winter I top it with a z-rest. Most air mattresses- even when they claim to have insulation (not including the downmat or synmat which have *real* insulation rather than just an aluminized coating) transmit an enormous amount of cold up from the ground. Putting a CCF pad on top makes all the difference for me and I get to keep the comfort of the air mattress.

And as a cold sleeper, I always carry a bag rated for minimum 20 degrees colder than the lowest expected temp.

Since I switched to this system, I've been comfortable in even quite cold temperatures.

You pushed both your bag and pad past the temperatures they were designed to handle. That's not the fault of the equipment. Like others have said, most of your problem came from the pad transmitting cold from the ground. The underside of your sleeping bag generally has less insulation, plus it's compressed from your body, so you need a quality winter pad in order to stay warm. All the tips above will help you push the limits, but the key to winter camping is being prepared, which unfortunately you weren't. Not being critical, we've all done it! I guarantee you'll be ready next time it gets cold, because freezing in your sleeping bag is a miserable experience, and miserable experiences are great teachers.

Way back in the early 1970's my winter camping instructor also suggested always going to bed warm.

He said to run around or do squats or whatever if you get cold prior to getting into your sleeping bag, e.g. while waiting for dinner to heat up (I did this at maybe -15 degF on Long Lake in NY in 1974…running in thigh-deep snow really warms you up!).

Also, if your clothing is dry (which it SHOULD be at these temperatures) get into the bag with everything on other than your boots, then take off your puffy jacket and whatever else you don't need. There is typically little room in the bag to allow this so it can be a real struggle, which warms you up quite nicely.

Its not even Winter, yet.

I've always put the CCF on the bottom, then the mattress on top. It keeps sharp pointy things away from my air mattress.

If you know its going to be chilly, bring along a couple boot or glove warmers with you. They don't weigh much nor take up much space in your pack. I have these for when I take my kids. They LOVE them and they help warm up the bag. You can put them on your torso as well.

I used to carry this, it can run on an ounce or two of white gas. Don't recall using it often, but it sure was warm!

"an ounce or two of white gas"

I get warm on an ounce or two of high proof rum.

–B.G.–

Yeah I'd agree that's it's the pad. That pad is a turd. I like big Agness as a company but that pad sucks.

Maybe more clothes or something but that pad has to go for winter use.

I slept in fall on cold ground and was cold at 10 deg above what my bag was rated at. I was using the baiac. I got an original neoair and went out ON the snow with a 30 deg bag and slept warmly. The big agness pad is call an R4 pad and the neo air says R2.5. In my experience the neo is significantly warmer.

I would never use a sleeping bag made by Eddie Bauer but that's just me, I'm an emotional, opinionated motard.

When it comes to winter backpacking, camping and general survival, I recommend going overkill always, especially on winter trips longer than 3 or 4 days. And neatly, the best down bags are always the lightest—think WM Puma rated at -20F at around 3 lbs 8 ozs. The -20F number is there for a reason–it will keep you warm at 0F no problem, hence the overkill appellation.

And as others have said, what's underneath you is vital. My winter kit always includes a pad combo offering around 7Rvalue, perfect for snow and ice and subzero temps.

One of the biggest problems I see with winter backpackers is their unwillingness to go overkill with bags and pads. So, they sleep cold and end up tweaking themselves to death—gotta add a hot water bottle, gotta sleep in my down jacket, gotta eat a candy bar at midnight, gotta keep ingesting hot liquids, gotta wear all my clothing, gotta use a VBL etc etc. All this is simply avoided by getting a warmer better bag.

>>>>I've always put the CCF on the bottom, then the mattress on top. It keeps sharp pointy things away from my air mattress.

I would think that putting the CCF pad on top would reduce the loss of body heat to the air mat, which is itself losing heat through convection (cold air) and conduction (cold surface).

One minor nitpick… the idea that "cold is transmitted in" is not technically correct. Energy moves from a higher to a lower (warmer to colder) state, so when we feel cold the problem isn't cold getting in, it is heat getting out.

It is important to know how the heat is getting out because obviously it affects the insulation strategy used to retain it.

I too use a ccf pad in the winter with it under my inflatable. The only drawback to this system is how the ccf pad is carried on the pack. I put my ccf pad in its own stuff sack and strap it to the side of my pack. Most backpackers I see lash their foam pads exposed on the outside of their packs. Problem.

These pads pick up thorns and spikes and briar sticks like a pin cushion. Then, when you roll them out to sleep and place your valued inflatable on top, the weight pressure may pinhole your inflatable by embedded thorns that you cannot see.

Just got Exped Synmat 7. I know it weighs more but that pad was more comfortable than every pad I tested. The big Agnes insulated core sucked. It was loud, hard to fill and slippery than greasy ice.

More comfort = more weight.

–B.G.–

Exactly. My pack can carry 60 lbs easy. To me, it's well worth the extra weight. I tried every pad rei and high country outfitters carry… The synmat blew them all away.

As Rodger said, it is certainly the pad. I have the same exact pad and used it at 25. That was the temp all night, not just a low. I had just under 2 inches of synthetic quilt over me. The pad was COLD until I put a torso sized blue mat on top of the pad. I tried under it first, just to see what it was like. It was better than without, but it was MUCH better on top of the BA IAC. With the blue pad on top I was almost too warm. The pad is just as important as the bag/quilt.