Anti-Drone !

This is a bizarre thread.

"Is it possible for an entire area to be "jammed" constantly"

Isn't that what they do at SXSW?

I've started using the term "going full BPL."

This thread has gone full BPL.

Still not as bad as gun forums/talk.

Flame on.

"I imagine a drone is much quieter than a passenger jet flying overhead. And far less frequent.

Good point John.

The noise depends on their size, the smaller lighter weight ones will fit in the palm of your hand and make very little noise.

Some of the bigger ones can be very loud though, say similar to a old washing machine on fast spin.
The noise is also pretty offensive in that it tends to be high pitched.

If it's above 20m high though you'd struggle to hear even the large ones in all but the quietest environments.

We build a film rig for a company that did some promotional vids for a beach bar.
Bar, beach and girls in bikini's obviously i HAD to go along just in case any tweaking was required (of the multi-copter not the girls in bikini's).
This was a big heavy device that was as loud as any i've heard, the director was hoping to get people looking up and waving in the vid.

Problem was that at 15m high the noise of the (pretty calm) waves was louder than the device.

We bribed the bar owners kid to run along the beach pointing upwards, that seemed to work lol

I understand that some people are frightened about technology they've read about in sensationalist media, best bet is just to ask if there are any questions though rather than the "lets destroy them all" band wagon.

If i interrupt your day with one of my devices whirring away i apologise.
But if it's me i WILL have permission to fly where i am and your day will only be ruined for around 15mins till my cells run out of charge.

It's not really THAT bad is it?

"As I say for me personally I don't see it as a real world problem." Not yet for me either. However, the prices are dropping and the capabilities are increasing rapidly. It won't be long before there is a potentially a problem.

"It's all in the details. Clever how you add "to me" in when you rephrase it.

Again, details. It was a full four posts before you made the DNHW list*.

* To Jack, it's pretty exclusive so far. Maybe six or seven. It also exists solely for comedic purposes. :)"

Not really sure why you are trying to pick an argument with me Dave i don't think we've had a fall out before have we?

Surely it's logical to automatically take it as a foregone conclusion that someone is talking about their own opinions based upon their own experiences, it'd be a pretty poor opinion if it was based on other peoples experiences wouldn't it?

1 post or 4 posts i can't say as it makes much difference at this end unfortunately Dave, it's still judgemental and childish to me.

Speaking as a grown man, i would rather have my opinions challenged with good solid 1st hand experiences and that there logic you talk about, rather than snigger away behind some childish acronym in a attempt to demean other forums users.

I thought i'd offer a bit of a view from the other side of the argument, as i've been flying RC craft for around 30 years so might have a different viewpoint to bring.
As i say it's easy to jump on the band wagon and take very rare instances out of context, absolutely no doubt some copters will ruin someones day soon with their whirring, but so far we've only had 1 case of someone seeing a helicopter on a remote trail
So i don't think it's a big enough problem to cause criminal damage to someone else's property and risk injuring other trail users (disabled or damaged craft won't have a controlled landing) or the possibility of starting a fire purely out of spite

""As I say for me personally I don't see it as a real world problem." Not yet for me either. However, the prices are dropping and the capabilities are increasing rapidly. It won't be long before there is a potentially a problem."

Agree completely Jack, the prices of the toy grade copters have dropped dramatically over the last 5 years, it's still a substantial investment both time wise and financially to build a larger craft capable enough to fly in moderately windy conditions and carry a camera and gimbal, you won't get much change out of $2000 for even a pretty basic multi-copter that's capable enough to provide quality video.

It seems as though your government is looking at the potential problem and doing what it can.
I read about a jerk in New York that was arrested because he flew his copter over a crime scene to get video, exactly what's needed.

Even if the price drops dramatically though i just don't see people carrying the necessary batteries, spares and tools to fly these things in remote locations.
Sure a few will, but i would say the biggest potential problem is around our homes NOT out while hiking.

We had a fire just outside Athens just a few weeks ago when a quad-copter crashed onto some parked cars, imagine if that was your home and the craft somehow made it through the roof into your loft, it could be disastrous.
Even dropping from say 20m onto a moving car is likely to cause a serious crash for all but the most skilled and calm drivers.

It's not being helped be various companies spouting nonsense about using these craft for deliveries, just to get a bit of publicity.

We get it. You like drones and spend lots of time and money on them. When folks talk about actual encounters of them being mis-used (e.g. crashing and sinking into NPS geysers), somehow that's not really a data point for you. Now we know you love your drone work around "bikini girls" (not the best way to avoid coming off as an airborne creep).

They might not be a problem in Greece, but they are clearly beginning to be an issue in the high-tech hotbed of California, both for privacy (e.g. Brookstone dude in post higher up) and backcountry annoyance. It's an emerging issue, with both positive sides (e.g. wildfire fighting, filming your wedding, SAR) and negative (e.g. spying, wildlife annoyance, noise).

And, yes, the "to me" makes a difference, and, no, it's not implied.

Anyway, I'm out of my 15 minutes of charge and am crashing into the forest, and will allow others to drone on.

"We get it. You like drones and spend lots of time and money on them. When folks talk about actual encounters of them being mis-used (e.g. crashing and sinking into NPS geysers), somehow that's not really a data point for you. Now we know you love your drone work around "bikini girls" (not the best way to avoid coming off as an airborne creep).

They might not be a problem in Greece, but they are clearly beginning to be an issue in the high-tech hotbed of California, both for privacy (e.g. Brookstone dude in post higher up) and backcountry annoyance. It's an emerging issue, with both positive sides (e.g. wildfire fighting, filming your wedding, SAR) and negative (e.g. spying, wildlife annoyance, noise).

And, yes, the "to me" makes a difference, and, no, it's not implied.

Anyway, I'm out of my 15 minutes of charge and am crashing into the forest, and will allow others to drone on."

Dave i find your recent posts on this thread very rude, confrontational and insulting
Maybe it's a bad night, but i'd be grateful if we talk in a more civilised tone, after all i've personally not done anything at all to offend you, it's not like talking about anything that's happening to you personally right now, so why the confrontational tone?

Back on track.

I don't see how you can add misuse and irresponsible behaviour as a data point.
People are dieing on our roads every single day, by speeding, drinking and driving, not paying attention or being totally innocent and being clobbered by one of these idiots.
Yet in this instance no one is blaming the cars, they can see that it's 100% the driver.

Toyota could bring out a new "impossible to crash car" some idiot will find some way of driving it into a wall at some point.
How can we add idiocy to data points?

People will always find some way to be idiots, we always have and we always will, you can't make laws to combat, install signal jammers or shoot down stupidity.

If that guy didn't fly his copter into the geyser there is a good chance he'd have tried something else stupid like strapping his gopro to a very long tree branch and dangling that in there.

You talk about "clearly beginning to be an issue" then talk about "data points" yet you have absolutely no evidence to support this.
Have you personally ever been buzzed by one of these craft while hiking?

We've had 1 experience from one person on this thread so far, it's hardly a epidemic is it?
No compare that to how many times you've seen litter left behind at camps, dumped at the side of roads or on paths.
How about graffiti?
Trail erosion?
Loud obnoxious hikers?
Mice in cabins?
Fire scars?
etc etc etc

These to me are the real problems, but again it comes down to stupidity, the only real solution is to ban hiking, or invent anti-hiker jammers that deter them.
See what i mean, you just can't fix stupid, and we're all stupid to different levels at different times.

Mark, kudos to you for keeping it respectful and reasonable in tone, even when some are railing against you in a more personal and denigrating way.

"…These to me are the real problems, but again it comes down to stupidity,…"

Maybe less stupidity, and more lack of consideration and empathy for others. I've met some highly, highly intelligent people whom have a very low EQ level, and did things that to more empathic and/or considerate type people would seem stupid.

I agree with a lot of your points btw, it is less the tool, and more the user, like with any tool, you will have some use it more wisely and others less so. But personally, i'm not a fan of the idea of drones in wilderness, except for social service type purposes. I can still see and respect your thoughts and reasoning though.

"I agree with a lot of your points btw, it is less the tool, and more the user, like with any tool, you will have some use it more wisely and others less so."

Hopefully the 'wise' users will keep them out of the wilderness… or at least apply their wisdom toward understanding when their noisy toys are blown out of the sky.

Billy

"Mark, kudos to you for keeping it respectful and reasonable in tone, even when some are railing against you in a more personal and denigrating way.

"…These to me are the real problems, but again it comes down to stupidity,…"

Maybe less stupidity, and more lack of consideration and empathy for others. I've met some highly, highly intelligent people whom have a very low EQ level, and did things that to more empathic and/or considerate type people would seem stupid.

I agree with a lot of your points btw, it is less the tool, and more the user, like with any tool, you will have some use it more wisely and others less so. But personally, i'm not a fan of the idea of drones in wilderness, except for social service type purposes. I can still see and respect your thoughts and reasoning though."

Thanks Justin,

I know exactly what you mean mate, my brother is a kick ass guy, i'm lucky to have him as a bro, but the guy has absolutely no sense of how his actions affect others.
I'm sure if you herded a group of 2 elephants and put them in a house they'd make less noise than him coming in early in the morning.
When we used to live together it used to drive me crazy, one day i exploded and had a go at him about it, he had absolutely no idea what he was doing.

I just can't see these copters being a problem to us in the wilderness mate unless there are major advances in battery tech (enough to 1/4 the weight and double the capacity)
They're just too heavy and cumbersome to carry any distance, they're also pretty unreliable, so you need to carry tools, it's also extremely likely that the rotors will get damaged if flying in wooded areas, so spares would be wise as well.
It all adds up, even with my tool box stripped down, my allen drivers shafts cut to save weight (just kidding) i'd still struggle to get my flying kit down to 10kg

I do agree though IF battery technology makes massive advances and they get even cheaper i'll be at the head of the line asking for them to be more tightly regulated.

""I agree with a lot of your points btw, it is less the tool, and more the user, like with any tool, you will have some use it more wisely and others less so."

Hopefully the 'wise' users will keep them out of the wilderness… or at least apply their wisdom toward understanding when their noisy toys are blown out of the sky.

Billy"

Thanks Billy,

I honestly don't see any good that could come out of these craft being forcibly removed from the sky.
I can understand that folks would get easily frustrated by them if they were being flown too close to you, but forcibly bringing them down would be dangerous to everyone in the immediate area.

It's akin to carrying out the PIT manoeuvre because someone pipped their horn at you.

BTW
I'm certainly no expert on these craft, but i have been a enthusiastic amateur for a while now, so if anyone has any questions about them, i'll happily try and answer as best as i can.
If it's something above my knowledge level i've got a good group of guys i can call on to help answer it.

Cheers
Mark

Mark S… you seem to be a prolific writer… and to have a 'last word' compulsion…

billy

Heard NPR talking with a manufacturer of drones. He does fixed wing foam drones for farmers and land managers to get real time data on crops and wildland health. Sounds like there may be some forest fire lookout drones in our future.

Traffic reporter drones

SAR drones

Football game video drones

This is another amazing, revolutionary, transformational, new technology. What great times we're living in. Too bad I can't live another 100 years…

"This is another amazing, revolutionary, transformational, new technology. What great times we're living in. "

I'm not interested in a drone until I can get Fohristi-whirl Skaffen-Amtiskaw Handrahen Dran Easpyou.

thank goodness for the google, "another amazing, revolutionary, transformational, new technology"

I like quoting myself

Don't like drones? Just get a kangaroo: http://digg.com/video/kangaroo-takes-down-drone-trying-to-spy-on-its-family