MSR or Snow Peak Pots?

It's old but here is a link to a comparison review of cookware done on this site in the past.

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/00098.html

AntiGravityGear.com makes a nice hard-anodized (=not nonstick) aluminum pot that's lighter than the insanely-expensive MSR titanium pot. (5.9 ounces, $18.)

Aluminum is not titanium, but it works very well and saves you a couple of ounces and quite a few dollars.

Those AntiGravity gear pots do look interesting… does anyone have experience with the durability of hard-anodized pots? Can you cook in them with a metal spork? How long can they be expected to last?

I am kind of a longevity freak… I like to buy gear once, I don't like buying stuff that I will have to throw away after a few years. By the same token, I do keep very good care of my equipment. My thoughts are that un-coated Titanium would have the best longevity, but perhaps I am not accurate in my thinking in this regard.

Damien, not answering your questions, but just some food for thought…

When it comes to durability, more is not always better. Over-built stuff comes with costs — namely price and weight. IMO, you should look at the types of hikes you do, the situations where you will be using your pot — and buy the lightest that will fit your needs, with just the right durability — and no more. With proper care, an alum pot will last you for years. Don't be too enamored by titanium. Finally, AGG, SP and MSR all make very good stuff.

I don't think that longevity will be an issue in pots. Unless you beat on them or toss your pack over cliffs a lot, in which case go Titanium! :) Lots of people have 20- and 30-year-old aluminum cookware; the low heat of a campstove won't wear it out. And now with Hard Anodizing, you could probably consider the lifespan to be unlimited.

Two more considerations:

1) For the price of an MSR Titan pot, you could buy 4.94 (basically 5) AGG pots. What's the longevity of 5 hard anodized pots? They'll probably outlast our civilization.

2) Even if, for argument's sake, the AGG pot had a 15-year lifecycle and the Titan pot could last 30 years under equal conditions. Within that time, they'll come out with pots that weigh 1/10th as much and/or are at least 2x as efficient. Are you really going to lug around a 20-year-old pot that weighs 10x as much as what's on the market then?

Benjamin, I totally agree with what you are saying. I am just treading cautiously at the moment, to make sure I make a decision that is in alignment with my values.

I have an environmentalist bent to me, I am sickened by how much our society throws away stuff. I know that in the UL world some people are more willing to sacrifice durability for a couple of ounces. That is not me, so I want to make sure that what I purchase will minimize my contribution to land-fills. If a hard-anodized pot will meet those requirements, then great I am all for it, I am not married to the idea of using titanium.

Brian, my personal philosophy is that I would rather buy one pot that lasts 30 years than have to buy six over the course of 5 years (It's one of my quirks – that's why I like fountain pens instead of disposable ones). When they do come out with newer and better/lighter stuff I would rather sell/donate/give my older (but still very usable) gear than have to throw it out. I am not suggesting the AGG pot won't last, it probably will, but I am just looking for others' experiences to try to make that determination.

That most Ti pots HAVE to be watched with an eagle eye while cooking. Ti pans without nonstick are notorious for scorching and burning dinner.
Hard AA pans…I have used them in the past and would use them again (if I did actual cooking in pans). But would I say use a metal spoon or spork? No. You'd do better to carry a UL wooden spoon or a heat resistant spoon/spatula to stir with.
Why do I say this?
If you are cooking for a big group, you will have a LOT of water or food in those pans (you said a 2 quart pan I am thinking?) That is 8 cups. That is BIG! A spork unless long handled is to short for safety around bubbling food.

And…..if you are cooking for more than one, it probably is better to not be stirring the food with your eating utensil ;-)

Otherwise, HAA pans work well, better than Ti. They retain heat well, cook evenly and take abuse. And don't weigh much more either.

You might take a look at GSI pans as well. They won't be the lightest, but they are built to take years and years of abuse!

Sarah,

Just a note on what you said, you stated that your main reason for using a wooden spoon is due to safety of the boiling liquid. From my understanding there are zero 'scratching the HA coating off' issues that you can get with non-stick coated stuff, correct? This is my understanding, I just wanted to confirm it with someone who uses HA on a regular basis.

AKA – It'd be just like using a steel or standard aluminum pot. Yeah, if you tried, the pot would fail before the ti-utensil, but you'd actually have to TRY to gouge the metal it's not likely to happen 'on accident'. Unlike the non-stick coatings which deteriorate pretty easily from accidental contact with metal untensils.

Damien,

Realize that the processing of HA pots utilizes significantly less natural resources than the Ti pots… this is reflected in the price.

FYI – I like Titanium. However, I only buy it for, ultimately, two reasons:
1) It's cool, and I like Titanium (it makes the engineer in me giggle)
2) I rarely spend money on myself (even though, by rights, I should as I make plenty of money), so my wife graciously allows (prods) me to splurge a little and get what I want.

Were I still in college or didn't have the job I have I would absolutely buy HA all the time.

I have used the Antigravity gear pots – they're awefully hard to beat for the $$$. They do have one clear down side – oddly enough they're slippery enough to slide off a stove if not plumb and level. I won't use mine again until I figure a way to increase the friction between pot and stove – most likely with course sandpaper.

Other than that – they're nice pots and plenty durable; I wouldn't hesitate.

To Sarah's comments, I agree that the pots are deep enough that a long-handled spoon would be helpful cooking and serving. They look unlike the hard-anodized surface on GSI pots which have a matte finish as opposed to AGG's shiny one. I have no idea whether that difference impacts cooking and cleaning. The GSI pots are bomb-proof, surviving any amount of scrubbing – no matter how badly you burned the food watching wildlife instead of the pot:(

Either way the HA aluminum pots are affordable, durable, and light

Joshua,

I called and spoke with the good folks at AntiGravityGear and asked them about the durability of the HA pots. The gentleman I spoke with said that he would not recommend storing a metal spork in the pot when backpacking because it would scratch up the inside of the pot rather quickly. I was somewhat surprised to hear this since after doing a little research, I read that the HA process made the aluminum more scratch resistant than SS or Ti.

With regards to the GSI pots… they don't actually seem any lighter than stainless steel from what I can see. I have an MSR 2L stainless pot with lid that weighs almost exactly the same as the GSI Halulite 2qt boiler.

Here is my take (and only my view!) of HAA pans. While they are very durable and can take abuse, they do better with non-metal spoons.
My GSI set that I take on car camping trips is fantastic, and the HAA allows a light natural non stick surface, which makes cleanup a snap if you carry a 1/4 of a yellow&green scrubbie pad and some Bronner's.

A couple years ago all I had was a metal spoon on a trip. While it didn't wreck the pan, it did leave markings in it.

I have also used other HAA pans as well. The thickness of the pans depend on style and brand as well. The GSI set (the 4 & 8 cup set) is about the heaviest I have used. It works well.

The thinner the walls, the more you will need to watch your food as well for burning. The thicker walled pans weigh more, and heat up slower, but offer a better bang for true cooking. (Same theory in how my Calphalon pans work at home!)

Hi Sarah

> That most Ti pots HAVE to be watched with an eagle eye while cooking. Ti pans without nonstick are notorious for scorching and burning dinner.
Well, I only had one very mild scorch in 3 months in France with a Ti pot, cooking for 2. I think it is the thin wall rather than the metal, so if you don't have the stove too hot there isn't a problem.

I do agree that metal spoons are a bad idea. We took GSI Lexan spoons: not a problem at all, including boiling water and scraping boiling pots.

Cheers

Very true….the sad combo is a thin walled Ti pot (to save weight) and something like a Pocket Rocket. That just begs for burnt dinner ;-)
If you can simmer on your stove it isn't as bad…but still, keep an eye on dinner!

So should I not be using metal on my Ti pots? Sounds like it's not a good idea…

If your Ti is not nonstick coated, by all means use a metal utensil :-) It won't hurt the pan.

"If your Ti is not nonstick coated, by all means use a metal utensil :-) It won't hurt the pan."

Yup… the key is you want your utensil to match to be LESS hard than the surface of your pot.

More or less in order of reducing hardness:
Titanium
Stainless Steel OR Hard Anodized Aluminum / "Halulite"
Aluminum
Non-Stick Coating
Lexan
Nylon
Whatever Take Plastic Utensils are made out of
Wood

According to everything I have been reading online for the past couple of days, hard anodized aluminum is supposed to be anywhere from 30% – 50% harder than stainless steel. My guess is that it probably varies by the quality and thickness of the oxidized layer.

The HAA pans are great for taking abuse-you drop one and you are not going to see dings, dents, etc. Think back to yonder years when all we had was Al. pans and stainless steel ones. The Al. ones were awful for getting dinged and scratched-the metal just isn't hard enough. SS pans could take more abuse.

So yes, HAA pans can take a lot more abuse, but even they can show scratching over time from metal utensils.

Of course, a slightly dinged up pan just means you actually use it ;-) It is like having dirt stains on your backpack: it means you get out!

“According to everything I have been reading online for the past couple of days, hard anodized aluminum is supposed to be anywhere from 30% – 50% harder than stainless steel. My guess is that it probably varies by the quality and thickness of the oxidized layer.”

Ah, could be… in my head I keep them as roughly equivalent. You are correct, the scratch resistance will depend on the quality of the anodizing.

“Of course, a slightly dinged up pan just means you actually use it ;-) It is like having dirt stains on your backpack: it means you get out!”

I like Ti burn marks (note, I didn’t say food burn marks)

FYI – The above pic is from my Titanium Burn Test, where I risked my long-beloved SP600 and super-trustworthy GST-100A for the sake of ‘science’ to prove that you CAN’T infact burn through a snow peak titanium pot with canister stove.

Heh I did that once with my Snow Peak 700 mug — just not on purpose.

I stuffed the mug full of snow and set it on the burner, intending to push the snow down. I got busy with something else for a minute, and when I looked back at the mug it was glowing orange! I pushed the snow down onto the orange metal and it went Whoosh and steam came up.

The bottom of my mug is now very slightly convex, but other than that (and discoloration) there were no lasting effects.

wow… that would have been pretty cool (other than the potential danger factor)… what stove were you using that got it glowing orange in snowy conditions?

I think that any stove would heat a pot like that… but for reference, it was a Trangia gas burner installed in a modified Clikstand. I was testing it as an "inverted canister" stove that's more stable and more modular than some of the options.

(Incidentally this system works well but I have some concerns about the efficiency of the Trangia gas burner. I think that the roarer-style burners are more efficient than the mushroom style. But it's hard to tell how efficient your stove is when melting snow; there are so many variables in play.)

my only comment on cooking with aluminum pots is the risk of alzheimers, but this is only a personal opinion and is obviously debateable :-)

Even IF aluminum caused alzheimer's, using non-scarring utensils on HA aluminum would result in ZERO aluminum leaching into your food (unless, of course, one was cooking something that you really don't want to eat anyway).