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Acceptable down bag weight?


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  • #1321210
    Stinson 108
    BPL Member

    @stinson108

    What is considered a somewhat acceptable weight for a down bag. I'm always cold when I sleep in late fall/early spring so I like a zero rated (or close) bag. I don't go out when it's actually zero….unless bags are rated in centigrade? 15-20F would be max for me to want to be out at night. I do use a Big Agnes pad. REI outlet has a Kelty plus 4 long on sale right now for about $200 but it weighs 3 lbs 15 oz. Is that about right? I don't have the money for perfect solutions. It needs to be in that price range.

    #2137363
    todd
    BPL Member

    @funnymo

    Locale: SE USA

    Not having experience with that temp range (bag) I'll let our more experienced brethren address that. 4 lbs, however, is a tad heavy for the rating but you may not get better for the $.

    Is your pad insulated? If not, get one that is (I prefer the Neoair XTherm). If so, adding a closed cell foam (CCF) pad to it will help, and maybe allow you to get a lighter bag (and put all that $$ into such bag. A warm, insulated, pad makes a lot of difference as temps drop.

    You can also supplement the bag w/ a warm baselayer and puffy jacket & pants. However, it is possible to layer up too much, thus causing sweat which will make you colder than no added layer. Been there, done that and it's not fun.

    Have you weighed your other gear yet? If so, what is your base weight?

    #2137367
    Dale Wambaugh
    BPL Member

    @dwambaugh

    Locale: Pacific Northwest

    Getting a deal on any insulated product that is truly UL is the UL gear grail.

    $200 isn't much in the sleeping bag world. A 0F Western Mountaineering bag is a pound lighter, but they run $675-$795. With less expensive bags, volume is every bit as much an issue as weight.

    The other part of the game is that a 0F Kelty is more like a 15F quality bag for warmth. Many of the US mass-market bag makers lie like dogs on warmth ratings. You need to factor that in and doing it accurately is a turkey shoot. Buy from a reputable dealer with a liberal return policy!

    I want a superlight 32F bag, but getting one that is significantly lighter than the one I already have is going to cost me dearly. Ain't no free lunch!

    Save your pennies and wait like a spider for a deal to drop into your web :)

    #2137368
    Michael Ray
    Spectator

    @thaddeussmith

    my 20 degree Revelation quilt from Enlightened Equipment in the Reg/Wide with 750 duck down configuration weighs 23.25oz and was $240 shipped to my door.

    it looks like things have changed slightly. you can get a reg/wide and now the minimum down is 800 goose down with a weight of 20.76oz and costs $255 + shipping. Still not a bad deal.

    #2137431
    Nick Gatel
    BPL Member

    @ngatel

    Locale: Southern California

    An acceptable weight is the bag or quilt that will keep you warm in the conditions you travel. There are other factors such as sleeping pad (if you use one) and shelter from wind and other elements.

    A bag that uses the EN raring is the best predictor of how the bag will work.

    Then of course, you need to fit it into your budget. Lighter bags with the same EN rating as a heavier bag will generally cost a lot more.

    So… There is no correct answer.

    #2137686
    Stinson 108
    BPL Member

    @stinson108

    Thanks for the advice. I especially appreciate the comments on the EN rating system. I had no idea about that at all. I looked at backcountry.com and the western mountaineering bags. They sure get rave reviews! I'm thinking I should wait and save up. But is there an in between solution? Something more like $400 rather than $650-700??? The Western Mountaineering versatile is about 1/2 the weight. But expensive.

    #2137824
    jimmy b
    BPL Member

    @jimmyb

    Stinson, the wife and I are also cold sleepers. We were looking for a sleep system for the shoulder seasons. our goal was to be comfortable at 20 degrees. We bought versalights and have been very happy with them. Using Thermarest X lights on unfrozen ground with a set of mid-weight thermals and fleece caps we were good to go. On warmer trips this year we used one bag as a quilt for both of us and liked it much better than using a bag. We still like the bags for colder weather but for summer we are working on some down quilts. Its hard to have it all in one piece of gear. There are many compromises. If you buy a WM bag, price it at hermits hut.

    jimmyb

    #2137877
    Randy Nelson
    BPL Member

    @rlnunix

    Locale: Rockies

    WM bags are hard to find on sale. But watch Gear Swap for a used one. There's a lot of lightly used gear on there. Or post a wanted (WTB) ad for one. I decided I wanted an WM Alpinlite years ago and saved a bunch by buying it there. Good luck.

    #2137881
    Ben
    BPL Member

    @benen

    We bought out WM Ultralight bags from Hermit's Hut, they were the cheapest we could find and shipped free to Australia at the time. Super fast shipping. I can't say enough about the bags or HH. Probably my favorite piece of gear. Definitely worth the extra $$$.

    Benen

    #2137897
    Stephen M
    BPL Member

    @stephen-m

    Locale: Way up North

    There is a 34oz weight differnce between my summer bag and deep winter one, but both are light for their given application.

    I suppose my point is that it depends
    on what you are doing, I regulary backpack on 2 different continents in 6 different countries in temps ranging from 80f to -20f so I have 4 WM bags.

    When I lived in Ireland and just backpacked their and the UK I had two bags.

    #2138119
    Tipi Walter
    BPL Member

    @tipiwalter

    What is the acceptable weight for a down bag? Unanswerable since there's no mention of conditions anticipated. Is it for summer? Winter? Subzero?

    Generally, it's accepted that a winter mountaineering bag should have around 35oz of high quality goose down.

    For my winter trips I always go overkill with a Puma WM rated -15F bag(so rated in 2005). Thing is, obviously, that your dry fully lofted down bag at home (did I say dry?) will always be fuller and have more loft than on Day 6 of a 20 day winter trip due to in-tent moisture and outside humidity. Hence the need to go overkill.

    I always shoot the rating number up 15 degrees, ergo a zero bag works for me until around 15F. So, a -15F is great at 0F which is were most of my winter backpacking happens.

    To me the most important number for a 800-900 fill down bag is the weight in ounces of down in the bag, and not the overall bag's weight. 3.4 to 3.6 lbs for a sleeping bag will work for me.

    #2138121
    Ken Thompson
    BPL Member

    @here

    Locale: Right there

    "What is the acceptable weight for a down bag? Unanswerable since there's no mention of conditions anticipated. Is it for summer? Winter? Subzero? "

    Walter read the OP again.
    "I'm always cold when I sleep in late fall/early spring so I like a zero rated (or close) bag. I don't go out when it's actually zero….unless bags are rated in centigrade? 15-20F would be max for me to want to be out at night."

    #2138166
    Tipi Walter
    BPL Member

    @tipiwalter

    Ken—agree. But 15-20F days have a nasty tendency to change to 0F or -10F on occasion. We had such a change on my trip in January which started at 50F and on Day 12 had -8F in the Polar Vortex. (NC mountains).

    #2138176
    David Ure
    Member

    @familyguy

    The OP mentions late Fall, early Spring. Not January.

    We all know you pack for the Apocolypse.

    #2138192
    Ken Thompson
    BPL Member

    @here

    Locale: Right there

    +1 on buying used on Gearswap. And saving up a bit more dough for a quality purchase.

    #2138200
    Mitchell Ebbott
    Spectator

    @mebbott-2

    Locale: SoCal

    Why buy down if it weighs that much? High-quality down is definitely better warmth for the weight than synthetic, but when you're looking at budget options the gap narrows significantly.

    A four pound, 0º down bag is no better than a four pound, 0º synthetic bag.

    #2138301
    Peter Boysen
    BPL Member

    @peterboysen

    Disclaimer: I work at Enlightened Equipment

    I'm with Ken who mentioned above that if it weighs that much, why buy down? Our 0°F Reg/Reg Enigma (800fp) weighs about 25oz, and while it's obviously more than what you were looking at, at $285 ($305 with hyperdry down), but that's pounds saved for about an extra hundred. Not to mention that you likely could get away with a 10° even if you're a cold sleeper.

    Quilts of course do take a little adjustment vs. traditional sleeping bags, so it may or may not be your cup of tea, but I figured I'd throw that out there.

    #2138302
    Ian
    BPL Member

    @10-7

    Kelty Cosmic Down +4* weighs per REI 3 lbs 15 oz (size long) and is $199 at REI.

    http://www.rei.com/product/882217/kelty-cosmic-down-4-sleeping-bag-long-2014-closeout#specsTab

    Kelty Cosmic (synthetic) +4* per Amazon weighs 5 lbs 1 oz and is $100 on Amazon.

    http://www.amazon.com/Kelty-Cosmic-Synthetic-Sleeping-Regular/dp/B004MQJGNU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1412002881&sr=8-1&keywords=kelty+cosmic+0

    My kids have the Kelty Cosmic 20*. I can't fit in it so can't speak to the warmth other than my kids haven't been cold in it down to the high 30*s. It has plenty of loft and I think it's a great value for the money.

    I personally own the Montbell ULSS#3. After a year, it's still one of my favorite pieces of gear and will probably stick with them when I'm rich enough to buy a winter bag.

    #2138306
    David Ure
    Member

    @familyguy

    "A four pound, 0º down bag is no better than a four pound, 0º synthetic bag."

    Apart from the down bag being much, much warmer for the weight. So yeah, it is better.

    #2138318
    James Couch
    Spectator

    @jbc

    Locale: Cascade Mountains

    >"A four pound, 0º down bag is no better than a four pound, 0º synthetic bag."

    >Apart from the down bag being much, much warmer for the weight. So yeah, it is better.

    How can it be warmer if they are both 0 degree bags. I believe the point the poster was making was that if both are equally warm it does not matter if it is down or synthetic, they both are 4 pounds.

    One advantage is that the down MAY pack a little smaller than the synthetic bag. I have also found that at WARMER temperatures down bags aren't as likely to feel too warm. I tend to overheat more in synthetic bags.

    Jim

    #2138332
    Tipi Walter
    BPL Member

    @tipiwalter

    "A four pound, 0º down bag is no better than a four pound, 0º synthetic bag."

    The only 0F rated 4 pound down bag I know about is something in the 400 fill category, more feathers than down. Like one of those old Army feather bags from the Korean War.

    The weight facts are simple—The North Face Dark Star -20F synthetic bag is 5 lbs 3 ozs. An equivalent -20F down bag (WM for instance) is right around 3 lbs 5 ozs. And as mentioned, packs MUCH SMALLER.

    #2138443
    Stinson 108
    BPL Member

    @stinson108

    Thanks again for all the tips. I think I've found a feathered friends bag on gear swap…if I can get my pay pal working.As for that post about Korean war bags, I have a down military bag that I never leave home without when I car camp. Too heavy to lift but man is it warm and tough.

    #2138549
    Tipi Walter
    BPL Member

    @tipiwalter

    We've all I believe have been thru the Army feather bag phase—

    Cold Night
    Here's my buddy Johnny B getting thru a cold night in Celo, NC.

    Canoe
    80 year old Arrants, himself a Korean War vet, still swears by his old Army bag when he stays in the old Tellico River cabin. I call it his Canoe.

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